Sonny Liston in the following fantasy h2h matchups

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Jul 21, 2012.


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  1. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Thank god for those who take the time to back up their opinions :good

    Much more telling than a few isloated quotes about "jabs"

    I don't doubt Valdez landed some jabs, but that's pretty much the same stuff I've read regarding the fight. I also recall reading articles regarding Valdez being allowed to physically pick up Charles and carry him to the ropes at points.
     
    The Mongoose, Jul 25, 2012
    The Mongoose, Jul 25, 2012
    #16
  2. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Indeed, I will take ezzard's own words over anyone else. Charles was not quoted as saying "just couldn’t get past those Nino jabs" did he? Instead he called Valdes "a strong fighter and a good mauler". There was no jabbing master class going on - I would bet on that. Valdes never put on a display of clever jabbing in any of the film I have of him against Moore, machen, Baker, Jackson, Satterfeild and Brian London so why against Charles? To say Valdes jabbed his way to a win is purely to suit a phoney Liston agenda. Yes Valdes was a big heavyweight with a Liston type reach…but he used to swamp and maul smaller men. A long armed slugger. Valdes was no box-puncher.
     
    choklab, Jul 25, 2012
    choklab, Jul 25, 2012
    #17
  3. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    check post #15:good
     
    choklab, Jul 25, 2012
    choklab, Jul 25, 2012
    #18
  4. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Yeah, he kind of struck me more as big brawling Bowe type. Had a good uppercut on film.
     
    The Mongoose, Jul 25, 2012
    The Mongoose, Jul 25, 2012
    #19
  5. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Ezzard Charles in a sit down radio interview in the late 1950s and claimed "I couldn't get away from Valdes' Jab". My source is a good friend of Ezzard Charles who posts under here as "albinored", doesn't wish me to give his name
     
    SuzieQ49, Jul 25, 2012
    SuzieQ49, Jul 25, 2012
    #20
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Mr McGrain has a history of producing the goods to confirm the accuracy of his opinions. If only all posters did.
     
    mcvey, Jul 25, 2012
    mcvey, Jul 25, 2012
    #21
  7. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    If that’s true, fine. That would be both interesting and uncharacteristic of Valdes not to mention the opposite of what Charles said in the ring after the fight.
    I also remember you saying you had laMotta vs billy fox on film....
     
    choklab, Jul 25, 2012
    choklab, Jul 25, 2012
    #22
  8. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I dont doubt this. I also found detailed reports to back up what I said. Re post #15
     
    choklab, Jul 25, 2012
    choklab, Jul 25, 2012
    #23
  9. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Yeah, this is kind of silly.

    I think some people on here owe choklab an apology.

    Not sure why McVey would ignore the fact you sourced your comments as well.
     
    The Mongoose, Jul 26, 2012
    The Mongoose, Jul 26, 2012
    #24
  10. Legend X

    Legend X Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    It probably goes to show that it is not possible to know how much a fighter relied on his jab in any particular fight by reading newspaper reports.

    People have different interpretations.
    I might figure the use of the jab to big more of a factor than the guy sitting next to me watching the same fight. He might say it was the in-fighting that swung it.
     
    Legend X, Jul 26, 2012
    Legend X, Jul 26, 2012
    #25
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yes, the quotes you have provided have an absence of details concerning jabs. It would be possible to produce a couple of passages about the FOTC that describe Joe Frazier's offence without mentioning his hook.

    That Valdes jabbed was the opinion of a smattering of ringsiders. Whether we did or not we won't know unless someone produces the film. But saying that he definitively did not use his jab as a major part of the winning strategy in the light of the two snatches I recreated is most definitely a reach.

    And i'm stunned that you "can't find" these references. I just googled (though I knew they were there having done so before).
     
    McGrain, Jul 26, 2012
    McGrain, Jul 26, 2012
    #26
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    A few isolated quotes about jabs indicate that Valdes may have used his jab, which was the entire point. Of the isolated quotes about the jabs.
     
    McGrain, Jul 26, 2012
    McGrain, Jul 26, 2012
    #27
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    He was paying me a compliment. It doesn't imply criticism of anyone else. There's no need to be so so sensitive (especially not on someone elses behalf).
     
    McGrain, Jul 26, 2012
    McGrain, Jul 26, 2012
    #28
  14. Legend X

    Legend X Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I'm not 100% convinced that Sonny Liston was even much better than the 1950 Joe Louis.

    I'd expect even that version of Joe Louis to beat everyone Liston beat, and in most cases almost as impressively.

    Sacrilege perhaps in the company of Liston-ites. But that's my honest feelings.
     
    Legend X, Jul 26, 2012
    Legend X, Jul 26, 2012
    #29
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I could see old Louis struggling more than a bit with Patterson's speed. It's also very possible that Patterson would be the puncher in that fight.
     
    McGrain, Jul 26, 2012
    McGrain, Jul 26, 2012
    #30
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