For Americans - how much is the view on Ali political?

That always smelled of bull****. I sincerely doubt.Ali spoke at a KKK rally.

 

Don't think he was truly for it. The man wanted his rights at home which was clearly an issue in line with Viet Nam.

He took the pre-Mecca/Elijah Muhammad/Malcolm X approach to the KKK rally in essense saying that he believed that blacks and whites shouldn't mix races and that their cultures were different.

It's hypocritical because he probably wouldn't have survived that rally had he spoke of blacks being better than whites and anything that subjectifies the white race as inferior. You could say he was the Uncle Tom appeasing the KKK at the rally while ignoring the true nature of Jim Crow.

 

Only Ali can give a public interview,make such statements and not have anyone of the time actually report it,it seems.



Do you have another source besides that clip? Any articles,perhaps?

 

He called Sonny Liston ugly. Big deal. He said he was pretty and his opponents were ugly -- had nothing to do with race.

The gorilla thing was a rhyme -- Ali always like to rhyme. What do chilla, thrilla, Manilla and grilla (as he pronounced it) have in common? Not race, but rhyme.

So he hurt Joe's feelings. So he said some things that weren't nice. It was psychological warfare, something he did with practically all opponents. If it got under Joe's skin and got him worked up so perhaps he'd be overaggressive and leave himself open, then Ali accomplished his mission.

It's not the meaning, cruelest things ever said in the history of man, or even in the history of boxing. It mostly goes to an HBO special that made quite a bit of this and changed a lot of public opinion about Ali -- you don't find it brought up much before that documentary, which was largely a smoke-and-mirrors production with people who weren't there at the time commenting on things as if they were, and certain parts of the promotion blown out of proportion. As you noted (but then brush off), Joe had some unkind things to say about Ali, both during his exile and building up to fights. Yet Joe acted butthurt over Ali's comments for the rest of his life so Joe's part in it is swept under the rug and Ali is the villain.

So Joe helped Ali, loaned him money, whatever. Was Ali supposed to say 'Thank you Joe, thank you Joe, I won't get myself worked up into the psychological place I need to be to win this fight because you are my friend, I won't do what I need to do to mentally gain an edge in this fight because you're my buddy'??? No, because Ali was a f-ing WARRIOR who understood all facets of fighting on the world stage, and would use any edge he could find to win.

Sugar Ray Leonard could have fought Pipino Cuevas instead of Roberto Duran. He handed Duran an unheard-of payday in Montreal. Yet where are the posts saying Duran shouldn't have insulted Ray's wife and family, that he should have instead been docile and grateful?

Again, it's BOXING. It's not a lifetime achievement award at the United Nations. Ali praised Frazier as no other over the course of time, saying Joe took him the closest he had ever been do death in Manilla, etc., etc. He said these things only in the buildup to fights. He said mean things
about a lot fo people -- maybe Archie Moore didn't like being called old, maybe Foreman didn't like it that Ali called him The Great White Hope in Zaire, leading the Africans to believe that the lighter-skinned Foreman was actually white to the point that they cheered for Ali to kill him.

People quote a lot of things Ali said. But I notice his haters never bring up quotes like these:

"Hating people because of their color is wrong. And it doesn't matter which color does the hating -- it's just plain wrong."

 

Because it's in contradiction with some of his other quotes, that's why.

I guess it's normal for a "WARRIOR" to insult other people just so he could feel safe. I guess it's normal for a "WARRIOR" to refuse fighting Foreman in a rematch.

 

When did Ali refuse to fight Foreman again?

Foreman took more than a year off after losing to Ali. He won a few fights to try to reestablish himself and lost to Jimmy Young. Then he said he saw God and was told to quit and become a preacher and retired for a decade.

I guess it is normal for boxing warriors to insult their opponents -- most of them have done so for more than 100 years. Ali was just more clever about it.

 

Ok, I'm done talking with a guy who worships a so-called "warrior" but who's nothing more than a disgrace.

 

:deal

Should have been a thread killer.

 

It's getting pretty pathetic here, when some posters start defending the obnoxious statements
that Cassius Clay / Muhammad Ali made throughout his career.

Then praise the thoughtful statements that he made.

There are many a poor soul who had bad breaks in life, and have every right to criticize the so-called
'powers that be'. But many have showed their 'true' character by moving on and achieved great things
despite the 'short-comings'.

 

You mean by helping to get American hostages freed from terrorists in Lebanon, as Ali did in 1985, or Iraq, as Ali did in 1990? Or working worldwide to fight hunger and poverty, as Ali did?

Yes, I agree. Good to see we find common ground in praising Ali's humanitarian works.

The point about the statements from Ali is things aren't, please pardon the pun, black and white. A person can believe some things and change those beliefs. A person can state something in an extreme manner but not have extreme beliefs. A person can say something extremely intelligent and be dumb or vice-versa -- heck, Adolph Hitler talked about his Christian duty to fight for truth and justice, but look at his ACTIONS.

Dempsey SAID he believed in opportunity but never gave that opportunity to black contenders to challenge for his title; Ali SAID he was against mixed marriages but was closer to no one than Bundini Brown, who was in a mixed marriage. ACTIONS speak louder than words. Andrei00 SAID he's done with this thread for one reason, but the real reason is that he couldn't find facts when challenged to back up his lame post.

One more thing on the idea that Ali was a racist because he espoused non-mixing of the races, and did so in the 1960s -- must have been a lot of racism going around for a long time, because by 1980 only 3.2 percent of all marriages in the U.S. were mixed-race. And by world standards, that was a high number. What he believed was a belief shared by most of the country, as ACTIONS show. Things have changed since and those beliefs look archaic now, but at the time they were not shocking in any way.

There are religions that will not, to this day, recognize marriages between people who are not both of that religion. Is that bigotry?

 

I think it's probably true.

The NOI meet frequently with the Ku Klux Klan. The Klan protected NOI's mousques in the South as long as NOI continued to oppose the Civil Rights Movement, which it did. Malcolm X was the go-between, while he was still in the movement, along with Jerimiah X. Jeremiah X addressed Klan rallies.

I don't have any problem believing that Elijah Muhammad sent Ali to speak at one of them- maybe more than one.

 

I agree Senor.

Reduced down to their essentials, the defenses I see here are:


1. Ali lied a lot and you can't really believe what he said.

2. Although Ali advocated that people kill race-mixers and did so in National publication, he never actually killed anyone, himself.


If this is the best I could do, I'd find another hero.

 

Bill B,

Good points as usual,,,,,,,,,,Bravo !!!

As many do not know, what Cassius Clay / Muhammad Ali said behind 'closed doors'
was completely different than what he said or thought outside on 'stage'.

For those who think they understood the guy, are believing a complete falsehood.

Belinda (second wife), said she believed 'nothing' that he ever said.

 

Actually from what I read it was John X Ali who was the go-between. Later revealed as a paid FBI informant/infiltrator.

John X Ali was almost certainly an agent provocateur under the Cointelpro operation the FBI was running against NOI.

Any evidence of Muhammad Ali speaking at a KKK rally, please provide it.

 

John X Ali was the liaison to the American Nazi Party. Malcolm X and Jeremiah X handled the KKK. It is believed that Elijah Muhammad also met with Klan leaders.

I have provided a clip of Ali saying he addressed a KKK rally. Do you think he lied?