Now that De La Hoya has been out of boxing for a while...Where do Oscar fans rank him

Pea, Ike & Tito were the top WW who had not fought each other ,Oscar moved up and fought all of them, then moved up and fought the best there then moved up to far and was beaten by Sturm & B Hop.

SSM was a huge LW & Oscar came from SFW himself
Vargas was still a ranked Boxer who gave Tito a good bout
Chavez was still ranked p4p , and it was not that he was waiting around for him to lose his edge before fighting him , he just fought who and what was in front of him at the time.

 

I'm showing you how things can easily be spun and you come back with more spin atsch

'Oscar came from SFW' - you mean by fighting a total of 2 fights there dry as a bone against a Danish midget atsch

 

Who do you think should be rated higher?

Who has the better resume?

 

Mosley didn't fight Oscar coming from lightweight, he had a few fights at the weight already. and is just as big as Oscar regardless. Mosley also fought at a higher weight in the amateurs

 

Did somebody say Whitaker was just as good or close to as good against DLH as he was against Chavez... I've almost heard it all now. Whitaker wasn't even close to the same fighter at that point.

 

Over the last 25 years or so I'd rate Whitaker, RJJ, Mayweather, Hopkins over him. And maybe Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield, Wlad, Calzaghe, Chavez, Toney, McCallum, Kalambay, Pacquaio and Marquez too although super heavyweights are hard to rank with their size advantages. I'd rate him over Quartey, Trinidad, Mosley, Morales and Barrera

Delahoya does have a very good resume, but he doesn't have very impressive dominance

I had Quartey somewhere from 8-4 to 9-3 on the 2 times I've watched it because I found his much cleaner heavy punches to be much more effective

As for Mayweather he hasn't fought all the best above 135, although he's added Cotto and Mosley now. He's missed Pacquaio, Margarito and Williams. Around '07-'09 it looked like cherry picking but he's since beat fighters he was accused of ducking (Mosley and Cotto). Winky Wright (in '06) and Pacquaio actually turned down very reasonable offers for fights too though, as did Margarito. He may have avoided Pacquaio but Pacquaio has walked away from a 50-50 offer with testing and 40million offer

 

You have a cheek to accuse others of Oscar tinted specs. Clearly, you're wearing Quartey ones.

 

Why I'm not a Quartey fan and that was my first scorecard for it as I saw him as being far more effective. I don't score punches that hit gloves

NOTE I didn't include the KD's in that which obviously closes the gap

 

His speed was no different. Maybe slightly quicker against Chavez. To say he wasn't even close is hideous.

 

A couple of previous posters have went on about him being past his prime weight against De La Hoya, past his prime in general, and making it out as if he never trained for the fight and instead went to cocaine parties every night.

Whitaker put in some serious work for that fight. He sparred with the likes of Vargas, Judah and Forrest. If you look at Whitaker during the fight, his reflexes and handspeed were as good as they could possibly be for a fighter his age. I'd even go as far to say, he looked as good as he did for 3-4 years. Certainly on par with the Chavez and McGirt II fights. His speed, defense and reflexes were anything but a shot and coked out performer. In his previous fight before De La Hoya, against Hurtado, Whitaker was dropped twice and behind of points before he got the stoppage. Trust me, he was as physically as good as he could possibly be for De La Hoya.

You need to look at Whitaker's legs against Trinidad. Thats what you call a shot fighter, inactive, and coked out his mind. It was the De La Hoya defeat that sent him into a spiral of serious coke addiction and into rehab.

 

9-3 sheesh.

 

Never said anything about bludgeoning.

There were many moments in the fight where Oscar started punching in the first 30 seconds, stopped punching, did very little in the middle of the rounds and tried to steal with flurries in the last 30 - 45 seconds. He didn't steal any rounds. Ike pumped his jab, threw his right, and was much busier and aggressive than Oscar. Who was backing up who? AND, if you think the only two good rights that Quartey landed in the fight were in the 9th, you're the biggest DelaHoya buttkiss that DIDN'T watch the fight with equal prejudice to both men.

Sorry to say that if it offends you.

Oscar landed some amazing shots on Quartey, I'm not denying that. He landed some solid uppercuts, hooks, and really took control in the last round of the fight. Came close to stopping Ike, but Halpern did a good job recognizing that Quartey was still returning shots. Oscar started to slow down after unloading everything he had. I've even said in earlier posts that I do agree with the general consensus that a challenger can't honestly take a champions' title by getting knocked down in the last round. Really though, one round shouldn't make a difference in the fight and I don't agree with the championship round BS. Every round in a title fight is a championship round. This is the very reason why Quartey likely might've got the nod or at least a rightful draw if the fight wasn't in Oscar's backyard. A draw would have been the best thing for both men. Oscar would have been pressured to rematch Ike which should've happened anyway.

IMO, Delahoya needed more than just one knockdown in the 12th just to earn a draw. The man was shaking his head going back to the corner after the 11th looking like he had lost the fight. The 9th too. He knew he was in trouble. Don't pussyfoot around it. It's in the commentary, over and over and over again by Merchant and Lampley.

 

DLH is a rough dude to talk about because most of his fans and detractors are so extremely blinded and biased in opposite polarized directions. I liked DLH, but don't consider myself a fan as much as appreciator of his fighting and willingness to fight many of the best of his era. I don't know that I liked him more than others of his day, but did appreciate them and him and some of the great matches that came from them.

Whenever you have a top flight fighter fighting other top flight fighters, you are going to have some hot and/or closely contested calls. Did Oscar ever recieve an unfair decision? IMHO NO! Were there ones that I disagree with??? Absolutely yes...on both sides!

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- (I don't hear this with the frequency that I did a few years ago)..I enjoy Molina's fights (especially his ones w/ Lopezand think that DLH takes him at any point in their careers....but this faded version, no. I do think Molina gave a very repectable performance....but like 2 of the judges I had 116-111, and really don't see any case for molina winning this despite his great effort.

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- Whitaker was great and due to the point in his career I don't understand robbery being attached to this fight? I had Oscar winning 115-113, and the subtract for the KD & head butt and reads 114-112. I really don't see how Whitaker did better than a draw w/out every close round being awarded to him? I don't see how anything other than a Oscar win/draw could be the majority? I could also see a SD/MD or narrow point win for Pea w/out this being a robbery. As for me I comfortably call this a competitive fight that Oscar won....I believe the outcry stems from the Judges horrificly wide cards in Oscar's favor (I don't see that level of dominance in this fight)..and the knee jerk reactions have swung to far in the opposite direction.

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- I got 114-113 DLH, and don't remember being as excited after the fight as I was leading up to it. I think this is a case of neiter fighter doing quite enough to win it, rather than one outclassing the other. Quartey didn't seem to turn it up like he might have in the middle stages and for that he has no one to blame. I see this as a super close fight and even though I have DLH by a point an SD/MD or even a draw does not seem out of the realm of acceptable..i can even tolerate Ike by a point...but this was no robbery unless you can't understand a close fight can go either way.

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- Now DLH finds himself on the wrong side of a close decision. When I watched this fight live and scored it during the actual fight I had Oscar winning 115-113, and thought while it was no robbery that I did not agree with the decision. Upon my further reviews I score it a draw. I do agree that Oscar looked vastly superior in the early going, but his desire to merely coast on that lead or blatantly avoid fighting through the remainder of the fight cost him big time. I still don't see Tito winning this fight, but it is not close to the robbery that DLH fans make it out to be. I am actually kinda glad that the performance he gave in the 2nd half caught up with him. Tito did not win this quite as much as Oscar lost it.

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- Not controversial from the outcome, but the fact that it was not a UD. I thought Shane was the clear winner and had it 116-112. I think the SD brought out even more DLH opponents.

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- I scored this a draw, and still do. I don't think either fighter winning by a point would be an outrage.

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- I had sturm winning 115-113 (and have never rewatched nor do I have the desire to do so)...I don't even think a draw is out of the question as from my memory Sturm didn't really impress me untill 9-11. I don't see DLH by a point as a robbery although I don't agree with the decision.

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- While this never went to the cards DLH being up 77-75 is laughable and borderline criminal. Fortunately it did not have to go to the cards.

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- I first had it 115-113 DLH, and have since switched to draw. I was upset w/ the original decision, but upon further review it seems acceptable even though I disagree with it. I really don't see 116-112 PBF...but oh well.

Real life results: 4-3 My eyes: 5-1-1 on first view-3-1-3 on review.

His real life results in close decision is not as great nor as poor as many others before him...I still call Rocky Lockridge the Heartbreak kid and don't seem to remember him ever coming out on the good end of the stick in a close one.

 

PP dropping truth bombs in here. Took ya long enough :thumbsup

 

I am not quite sure where to rate Oscar? He didn't really have a level of sustained dominance in one division over a period of time. I don't rate him top 10 in any single weight class. I am not sure when I last did a top 100 atg list, nor whether Oscar creeps into it??? Hmm off of the top of my head w/ just a guess somewhere in an 85-125 range?

H2H I think he fares much better.....especially at 140 DLH vs Pryor would be a nice dream fight!