How would Sonny Liston have done in Big George's main fights?

I'm saying he fought the guy who sparked him. He also fought liston when he was number 1 contender. He fought moore, ali and liston when they were the highest ranked heavyweights in the world. So I don't think there's any real issues regarding him ducking.

I'm saying foreman was clearly still the same man he was. His training habits are on him so I don't pass him.

 

You're kidding right? He fought London, Radamacher, Harris, McNeeley over Machen and Folley?

 

I don't really get your point.

Jackson was top contender when he defended against him. Ingo was when he defended against him.

So he had a couple of crap fights in between (london and harris where top ten though). Not every champion faces every number 1 contender all the time.

 

Liston gets stopped by Frazier and Holyfield. He did get stopped by Ali x2.

He'd probably beat Norton, Lyle, and Morrison. Norton could be trouble with his combination of size, strength, and skill... my guess is he eventually gets stopped though. Lyle was more durable but less skilled than Norton, would be a good fight, might go the distance but Liston would win. Morrison lands some good shots and rocks Liston but gets stopped in the mid rounds.

I think he'd have a tougher than expected time with Briggs and Moorer. Briggs is a big strong man and despite getting stopped twice, pretty damn durable.

Briggs was stopped early in his career (LKOby3 Darroll Wilson) and he was stopped by Lewis (LKOby5). 51-6-1 (45) 1NC overall and 1-2 (1) in HW world title fights... he did beat Lineal HW Champ George Foreman (questionable decision) but Foreman had been stripped of the belts.

Moorer wasn't so durable but he was strong and a good southpaw boxer (actually he is right handed though) with good power and speed. He could create problems for the slower Liston. Moorer wouldn't be outsized vs. Liston either.

I'd say definate losses to Frazier, Ali, and Holyfield. He'd probably beat the rest.

 

He did eventually beat Machen though.

 

...you can say it all day but that doesn't make it true!

 

in your shitty opinion. the judges saw it as a close fight. meanwhile you want to give young the W to help your argument. **** off with that ****. Now forget the stats and compare them on film; Machen is a damn near replicate of Young but with more power, and better combos. Facts are facts.

History says otherwise doesn't it bud? He was hurt by WEAK-AVERAGE punchers.

Why don't you look closer? you're just looking at names. Ali was fat and past his prime, and everyone acknowledges this. That was not a prime Ali by any means. and While Foreman was a good win, it was no great win. Foreman was simply not himself. Watch the film and compare it to his prime self against Norton, Frazier, Peralta, Boone, and Gullick. They are not the same fighter at ALL. Foreman had none of his former killer instinct and none of his ferocity.

 

Yeah when I last watched the fight I scored it for young purely so months later I could use it in an argument with some kid online.

I don't know what to say to you on that one son.

Ofcourse ali was past prime. But even that past prime ali was better than anyone liston beat, as was prime foreman.

Whilst liston is greater than young, he loses to him on points imo. Maybe even quits on his stool with frustration.

 

Liston beats Frazier in a grueling battle where the supposed stylistic advantages of the bigger man does not appear to be as pronounced as expected come fight-time. It's accepted practice to have Liston win by early knockout, but I just don't see it coming to that. On second thought, if it's the fat guy that showed up in Jamaica, then yeah, he's in for it.
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Sonny gets to Norton after navigating around, or punching despite, the latter's jab.
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Liston comes up against an interesting foil in Ali. I think Muhammad still had the legs to evade Liston's bullish aggression for the most of it, but he'll definitely get his bell rung quite a few times too. A close decision either way seems reasonable if Sonny can maintain any sort of offense going in the later rounds. I could also see Ali taking over a close match over the championship distance.
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Liston also stops Lyle. Never approaching the back-and-forth brawl Ron had with Foreman, but a quick, little scrap; exciting in its own way.
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Liston walks away with an unremarkable victory as he outworks Jimmy Young, especially to the body. Young fires a few well-placed punches, but not enough of them. This could be "a close one".
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Evander makes Sonny quit. I hate to resort to stereotypes, but at this point, it's too much, too late for The Bear.
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Morrison makes a close fight of it for as long as it lasts. This could be Sonny's "Foreman-Lyle" at last. In the end, Tommy's just too chinny even though Liston's lost a fair bit of power already.
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Moorer outboxes him for a while, makes him look bad. More often than not, Liston figures him out before putting him away.
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Liston has a good chance of outpointing Briggs.

 

No, sorry, past prime Ali was not better than Folley, Williams, or Patterson.

are you ****ing joking? Young had literally no fire power there is no way he stops someone as durable as Liston even by corner quitage. sorry that isn't possible especially if you watch his fight against machen

 

Maybe not in your opinion, but in mine he was.

I dunno liston didn't have much heart so if he gets frustrated I can easily picture him quittin.

 

jesus christ man. watch his fights against Williams, Williams nailed him with plenty of hard shots and Liston didn't fold like you are making him sound like he would. Soft punching Young wouldn't make him fold either. Also if you can't see any similarity between Machen and Young then you need to take a closer look. Machen actually was a decent hitter and threw combos. Young was more acomplished but they are very similar ins tyle.

 

Quit on his stool? Gotten hit by a punch that shouldn't have knocked down Patterson and choose not to get up? Am I close?

 

But williams is somewhat of a hype job and it's hard determining just how good williams was to begin with.

He could fold mentally.

Young and machen have stylistic similarities but but young proved his skills at a higher level. If you put machen through young's schedule of fights I don't think he's as successful.

 

I dont think Old Liston could do what Old Foreman did.