Prime Johnson v Prime Langford,Jeannette,McVey

Jack Johnson never beat anyone as good as a 26 year old 6'0 195lb Floyd Patterson, not even close


He also never beat anyone as skilled as prime versions of Zora Folley, and Eddie Machen

He never beat a fast, powerful big man like a prime Cleveland Williams

 

How about that title "reign" of Liston.. that is truly something to behold... Certainly deserves Top 10 placement in HW history... Ooo wait... Ooo and actually you can say which fighters were better in certain eras decades later.. but he fact remains.. Johnson beat more HW contenders and better HW contenders.. than Liston did. Period. Just because you feel like fighters evolved and were better.. doesn't change the fact that what Johnson did in his own era. before and after winning the title.. takes a dump on liston's same list or lack there of when it came to a "reign"

 

No he did not. It's quite clear Liston beat better HW contenders, more "prime" top rated contenders. period.

 

You mean ducking top contenders, while Liston cleaned out his era?

 

Johnson CLEANED out ALL contenders MULTIPLE TIMES before he won the title... What are you smoking right now... He beat all the people you say he ducked.. sometimes 5 times... Please. You don't want to talk about Liston's "reign" which is why you edited my post to reflect that very thing. There was no reign for liston.. which is in stark contrast to Johnson... It's apple and cherries...

 

The problem here is that you arbitrarily decide that the contenders from one era are better than the contenders from another without any reference to their credentials.

The reality is that Johnson’s opponents have equal or better credentials relative to their era, and there are a hell of a lot more of them spanning a longer period.

 

Again, how would Johnson get a title fight at that time if he didn't clean the division, specially given how 'charismatic' he were? He might've avoided black contenders after he became champion, but (like apollack mentioned in another thread) so did every champion after him at least until Louis who's only black contenders were John Henry Lewis and Jersey Joe Walcott (to be fair to Louis, the best contenders in his prime years were not black). If the most famous black contenders of Johnson's generation were yet to peak during his run leading to the championship is not his fault. He fought them when he needed to and did enough to prove himself worthy of a title shot to the press.

 

All true statements.


Forget Johnson win over a 20 year old 156 pound Lang ford. Lang ford in his prime at 170-200 was a world beater, who in my opinion would have knocked Johnson out.


Mcvey was lacking on Skill. I think Johnson beats him.


Jeanette in his prime vs Johnson is his could go either way. Jeanette might out work Johnson. Remember Jeanette said he was 165 pounds when he last meet Johnson and very green with sometimes a losing record!

So I will say 1-1-1 for Johnson or 2-1 for Johnson, but we'll never know. As Jeanette put it, when Jack became champion he forgot his old friends and drew the color line against this own people.

There are numerous headlines with well known promoters for Johnson to face Langford, Jeanette and McVey. He balked. He never fought Gunboat Smith either, who floored him in a 4 rd exhibition match to the point where Johnson manager had to halt the match.

 

Same objective opinion.

If the situation is more sour than the beloved fairy tales make it out to be, that ain't my fault.

 

As Chael Sonnen said... He will beat them for 12, 15, 20 full rounds.. AGAIN

 

Like Janitor said in the first page, I think Jeanette is a potential spoiler for JJ at any time....with that moving and awkward style with a confusing jab and everything.....
But I can´t see why the others would beat him, since like said by PP also in the first page, these fighters improved a bit with time, but so did Johnson as well.....

 

I'm not sure how Jeanette could be a spoiler when he wasn't able to do so is numerous encounters...