Better Boxer: Robinson or Leonard?

If you have to really ask this question, then you obviously have not spent enough time watching The Cuban Hawk!

ESB did a classic forum survey about 2 years ago and Gavilan edged Hearns (places 5 and 7 respectively) in this poll of 43 forum members. I am sure some are biased towards the past, but I also have mucho respect for quite a few of them. SRL came in 2nd...I am not sold on him at #2, but not as a sign of disrespect towards him as much as it is based upon equal respect for Napoles, Gavilan and Armstrong...To me SRR is a lock at #1...2-5 are the next level, and Hearns is just outside on the next tier...I don't mean that as a knock on Hearn's as he or Napoles would be my 2 favorite welters?

Gavilan clearly belongs in the discussion!

Link to esb classic welterweight debate and results:
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=171361&page=14

 

Lost his first fight to Ike Williams, then beat him 2 X's (kinda like Duran Dejesus & SRL Duran).
Beau Jack
Bratton
Dykes
Gil Turner
Lausse
Davey
Tiger Jones
Basilio
Graham (lost the first and won the rest)
Some claim he won the first Williams, Graham & SRR fights as well)

I love Hearns but would love to see 15 names on his list of victories that mirror these.

 

was this an attempt at humor? Robinson have about 5 times as many "big" fights than Leonard did.. I must go now, I need clean up the water I spit out when I laughed at your post.

 

Here I go again. atsch
Different fighters, different eras, difficult to compare.
Can you imagine Leonard, as a welter, fighting every contender (and, to be fair) every non-contender, throughout his first 5-6 years as a professional??? Every 2-3 weeks???
Why can't we regard Ray Leonard as an all-time great (tho I'll start another thread and trash anyone that wants to trumpet his Hagler 'victory' as some sort of 'accomplishment') and dispense with the "he's better than the Sugar nonsense?"
Again...Here I go again. atsch
A Leonard in the 40's-50's would have been a, shall we say, less chiseled speciman. A Sugar in the 70's-80's would have been more muscle, with basically the same speed all-time wrecking ball!
All hail Sugar Ray, THE greatest fighter to EVER step between the ropes!

 

Hagler,Hearns,Duran,Benitez. All top 40 atg. how many top 40 ATGs did robinson beat.

 

I'm more impressed whenever I see Robinson on tape

 

Don't accuse me of rose tinted glasses just because I don't agree with you. Most of ESB classic had Gavilan above Hearns in the poll that was already mentioned.

 

Beating Basillio at Welterweight in his hometown was impressive. I believe he beat Gil Turner in Philly who was undefeated and highly regarded.

 

Its tough for me to say.

I think SRR would have outpointed a prime Duran and knocked Hearns out without getting schooled. Its just such a shame that only limited footage of SRR exists so its difficult for us to see the man that was so unstoppable.

SRR to me was the better fighter than SRL but also had superior boxing techniques such as footwork and he controlled distance extremely well. SRL has the slight advantage in hand speed, but is equal to SRR in almsot every compartment apart from footwork and range

I think SRR edges it imo

 

Robinson had a pretty clear edge in power.

 

Oh yeah thats true, in both hands aswell.

 

Hey King!
The limited footage of Sugar (not Leonard who stole his name) is at Welterweight. Only a few 40's bouts ( a few minutes here and there) exist as far as I know.
Again, different eras folks, Ray's early career had 10-15 bouts a year throughout the 40's and you just can't realistically translate that into the modern era.
All hail Robinson!!! Ask Ali.

 

Remember seeing Leonard as an amateur, 'specially in the Olympics, thinking he was the closest I'd seen to Robinson, and I'd seen quite a few since the early '40s.

If I had to characterize the difference: Leonard was flashier -- had brilliant hand-speed, combinations, upstairs n down, ring generalship 'n tactics. He was about winning.

Robinson was about destroying. Under that mega-watt grill, was a STONE KILLER -- ready to strike at any moment. He threw no shoe shines. Every punch was lethal. His grace was mistaken for a silk...but behind that silk was a brick.

 

Robinsons bets win is a top 40 or top 30 ATG. Leonards best win is a top 10 ATG FACT

 

Your the guy who sparred in front of SRR, and he gave you a thumbs up :rasta