RJJ is the not the GOAT, but he is the best fighter ever

Robinson, really?? I think Roy was just too big for him.

Even if Roy's jaw was as bad in his prime as you make it out to be, you have to consider the possibility, that some of those guys can't land a clean shot on him.

I don't see the Jones from Toney losing to Hagler either.

 

His Hopkins an ATG? Yes. Should Roy get credit for beating him? Absolutely.

Is Toney a Hall Of Famer? Yes. Is he an ATG? :huh Nope. Never understood why Toney is considered an ATG he accomplished far less than both Jones and Hopkins. A very good fighter but not ATG.

 

Size isn't everything. SRR had speed, power, and an Iron Chin.

Not going to favor Jones over any other ATG with power and a Chin. Just not going to happen.

 

If he had an Iron chin he definitely would have stayed at Heavy.

 

Robinson fought a shitload of featherfisted guys who were able to outbox and be awkward, and he lost to a lot of them.

Jones beats everyone on Robinson's ledger and beats the hell out of Maxim, too.

 

I have seen Toney rated very highly by people, and low by some... I think he had enough longevity, and different weights, and some solid wins to be a great... though some of his losses to mediocre fighters hurt him, perhaps that may be the reason you don't consider him ATG?

 

:roflatsch

When you fight everyone available of course you are going to have some losses. SRR didn't handpick either like Jones. Look at DLH sure the guy lost a few fights because he ****ing fought just about everybody. A few of his losses could have gone his way and he was gifted the Sturm fight so it goes both ways.

Had Jones fought everyone he should have then he would have had some losses also. But he flat refused to. Do you understand how this works?


Of course when you carefully move through Divisions avoiding the top fighters and handpicking fights you are going to look good and Jones knew that. Do you think it was by accident? :roflatsch It was by design hell he basically admits he didn't take any risks. SRR and DLH took risks. Sometimes they won sometimes they lost. So what? That is my point when it comes to Jones on here. We will never know because he didn't make the fights happen. :hi:

 

He is without a doubt a HOFer and Jones gets full credit for the win but Toney is not an ATG. Factor in his multiple failed steroid tests and I have seen a few writers (Rafael and Iole) say they will not vote for him on the first ballot out of principle. In my opinion Toney is a first ballot HOFer anyway but I just don't see the ATG status.

 

The only time Roy ever admitted to "not taking risks" was when he didn't want to move to heavyweight when everyone was pretty much pressuring him to. He eventually did though

 

Very true.. Size isn't everything, but we have to remember, Roy had elite speed and power combined, and could throw punches from all sorts of angles that most fighters have never seen.

Roy at 175, has some fighters that H2H may be a nightmare for him, Spinks, Moorer are 2 off the top of my head. He could never compete with the great Heavyweights, just too much size and power.. Though I still think it was impressive to start at 154 and move up and beat a top 5 heavy, even if it was Ruiz.:yep

But at 168, at his peak? The Toney fight is what I consider the best version of RJJ ever.. Toney was a great defensive fighter and a great counter puncher, and was only able to hit Roy cleanly upstairs just a handful of times.. I have always thought anyone H2H at that very weight would have serious issues with that Jones.

You have your opinion about the jaw, I guess we disagree on how bad it was then, but totally agree on how bad it is now.. i just don't think it was a huge issue back then, especially combined with the amazing reflexes.. The Tarver shot would have knocked him out at any time though, and I think that is what really cracked it.

 

How does that explain him missing all those fights at 168 and 175? :huh

I don't care about Heavyweight I am not going to knock they guy for not fighting Lennox or the Klitschko's or anyone like that he would have been killed. I will knock him for avoiding fights at 168 and 175.

Again, when you fight the best available fighters you are going to have some losses. There is a reason why there is only one guy that didn't ever lose. It is not easy to do.

I still think you are missing the point here. Had Jones done what DLH did he would have had some losses also. But he didn't he made excuses, priced himself out went up to Heavyweight for a handpicked opponent then came back and started getting KOed over and over in embarrassing fashion.

 

The only fight he legitimately missed out on was Michaelzcweski and that's because neither were willing to travel to eachother's home turf.

Don't say Collins because he's a damned eurobum

 

Roy was a hard man to negotiate with after he was regarded as the best... It is my least favorite part about him, except maybe his excuses after losing. But he felt he held all the cards, and wanted everyone to come to his demands, and fight him where he wanted.

The sad part is, I think Roy was capable of beating everyone that he didn't fight... But I also don't totally put blame on him for not fighting certain fighters, as some offers were made but turned down.

 

I don't get how you're a Roy fan boy but you hate on Rigondeaux for having a bad chin..

 

Don't really care about Collins.....There is a pattern with Jones that started at 168 he wanted to take the least amount of risk possible. And we all know why because he was harboring an awful Glass Jaw.

Why do you think he has been willing to travel in recent years? The guy has been KOed on like 4 Continents now :roflatsch

Jones wasn't willing to fight the best available fighters and if he did he would have suffered a few losses just like other ATG's did. So what? You can't win them all.

What would have been worse? Jones losing a close fight to Michaelzcweski or Benn or all these brutal and embarrassing KO's to people like Glen Johnson and Danny Green? I think you know the answer....