How many from Robinson's Ledger Could/Would've Beaten Jones Jr?

nah that's fanboy talk that mate. the heat was there all day, Robinson still fought at a high tempo which he couldn't sustain. Had he fought at a lower tempo the fight could have been much more even.

it is what it is. doesn't really detract from Ray's legacy as noone considers him a great LHW anyways. Doesn't change the fact he fought a stupid fight in heat which was there from before the first round.

 

No, it's just that it was a legitimate win. If you can't go the distance you lose the fight.
How can "punching yourself out" be considered a good excuse in any environment ?
Punching yourself out is a common mistake, a common way a fight is lost.

Maxim was the guy taking those punches, in the same environment, and he outlasted Robinson.

That's all.
So, yeah, quit with the excuses.

 

it's refreshing to find us agreeing on a subject :good

 

I didn't say it wasn't legit, it's still a fluke due to the insane heat. Fluke's happen in sports and worse individuals or teams sometimes beat better ones. No think's Chelsea beat Barce in a rematch for instance

Anyway I repeat my earlier reasoning:

I've been through this time and again. When a big man fights a smaller man, the smaller man has to use more energy to offset the size advantage. Thus he is at more of a disadvantage from extreme conditions, ie extreme heat

Now 175 may have been a bridge too far for Robinson anyway and Maxim may have won in an air conditioned arena, but he didn't show much to make me think he would, he wasn't doing anything particularly impressive or breaking Robinson down

 

Maxim was a big light-heavyweight. He wasn't "worse" than Robinson in an absolute sense at all. In fact, Maxim probably beat several other big guys (lhws and HWs) who would have beat Robinson too.

I have no idea how the fight would have gone in milder temperatures.
The same is true of many great fights (eg. Manila).

And, yes, being the bigger man is advantageous.

 

Indeed. :good

 

Prime for prime, Jones would be 7-0 against there guys and I included fight against etc. as a win. Jones just too fast and slick and...strong BTW.

 

If, woulda, coulda... Excuses abound for the sugarman. If Maxim had lost that night, not one word in the boxing history books would have mentioned the heat.
If SRR would have won, it would be remembered as a feather in SRR's cap and yet another victory attesting to his greatness.
Maxim apparently didn't get the memo that he was supposed to lose and he beat SRR and beat the heat also.
Perhaps one of Maxium's greatest achievements and everyone tries to take it away from him, not fair!

 

Didn't he fight Lamotta when he was a welter? In those and up to the '60's, welter like Luis Rodriguez, emile Griffith were fighting and beating feared middleweights.

 

no evidence of that at all. Robinson was having a heat stroke from about the 11th round on. Still Maxim didnt land anything of consequence or do anything positive at all. Your giving Maxiim way too much credit. He didnt plan that. Maxim couldnt let his hands go because he couldnt find Robinson. Its a funny take though.

He did stand up and take the punches. He expended little energy just being a punching bag for most of the fight. The conditions beat Robinson more than Maxim did.

Its called a fluke.

 

He couldnt lay a glove on a fighter having a heat stroke. I tend to think if Maxim couldve hit Robinson he wouldve. There was no great strategy on Maxim`s part. He was just too slow to get off.

He was in the right place at the right time.

 

Ray fought LaMotta because that series was big money. And as he grew he fought pleny of middleweights. But by that point Murderers Row (Moore, Blacjack, Charles, Bivins, Marshall, Chase, etc.) were light heavyweights for the most part. The exceptions were Burley, Williams, and the Cocoa Kid who was at the end of the line anyway. Holman Williams and Ray probably knew each other pretty well and might have had little desire to fight. Burley has been discussed as nauseam.

Bottom line: Ray Robinson meet and beat tons of black fighters and its probably pretty silly to accuse him of ducking those guys.

 

They couldve hung a heavybag in the center of the ring and have Robinson hit it for 13 rounds. The heavybag wouldve been the LightHeavyweight Champion. And it mightve been as close on the cards as Maxim was.

 

So why did Ray fight like he was so worried about Maxim's power with all the movement? If it was that simple he could've just fought in the pocket against the light-hitting Maxim and saved enough energy to win the title and go out jitterbuggin' that very same night.

 

Ezzard Charles... Robinson and Charles never fought but they fought in the same era and had a few common opponents. I think Ezzard takes it.

Archie Moore, John Henry Lewis, Jimmy Bvins, Lloyd Marshall, Harold Johnson, would not be a walk in the park.

As for Lamotta, Graziano, and some others mentioned... I doubt Jones would have too much trouble. As for SRR? I still think he'd beat Jones in a close fight.