Anyone here has Jack Johnson inside the Top 10 list ??

I agree, but even in his reign of terror Louis gave his supporters some scares, didn't he? Sure, in the rematches he would KTFO of you but he showed some big cracks in his armor (even if he ultimately overcame them with his strengths). That kinda hurts him in a H2H perspective. I also have him topping my list btw.

 

Aaand I might have screwed my vote again. Or not. I'm somewhere between 'ATG but not in the top 10' and 'yes'.

 

I rate him just inside, the last time I did a list. No one has cracked that list since Lennox but I've shuffled the names a bit. Just inside. And I'm not at all big on Johnson (uh huh huh huhhuhhuh). I don't rate him p4p unless the list is quite long. Over a hundred.

 

McGrain.. I usually see eye to eye with you on most things.. but this.. we couldn't be further apart on some choices... Tyson top ten... Liston top ten.. Wills Top ten... I just don't see any of those above Johnson. Even Holmes.. sure in h2h ability he's top ten.. based on resume.. I'm really not sure how you can place him above Johnson. I guess my point is.. what is your criteria for a top then.. cause with some choices it's not a championship.. one it's not a title reign or for that matter a deep resume.. and another two aren't based on resume really..

 

He's in my top 5.

 

None taken, and point taken

 

Depends on your criteria, but he ranks near the top at the following:

Longevity - he was arguably the best for about 14 years, his coloured title run onwards
Dominance - he beat everyone he faced until old

In terms of head to head and how good his era was he maybe doesn't rate that highly

 

Yeah. Legacy wise mostly everybody in the division is kinda 'glass-jawed' and as soon as you pick a point of controversy about a fighter you get swarmed by cheerleaders (and not of the good kind).

 

Ali; Louis

Lewis; Foreman; Holmes

Holyfield; Tyson; Frazier; Marciano

Liston

So no, I don't. He's in the next mix; with Tunney, Charles and Tokyo Douglas.

 

Who exactly did Holmes beat that places him above Johnson?

 

I made a new one the other day, should have written it down, but I believe i had it like this
1.Louis
2.Ali
3.Johnson
4.Holmes
5.Marciano
6.Langford
7.Frazier
8.Foreman
9.Tunney
10.Charles

I know it can be argued that Tunney and Ezzard belong more on a top 10 LHW, but I am very impressed by both at heavy. I also have Tunney above Dempsey on my list because I believe he was better, and because he fought everybody, Including Greb who Dempsey never did.

Also Johnson dominated and dramatically changed the sport, he is an Icon, and Langford was just a bad mother****er.

 

When I was a kid, about 35 years ago the top 3 more or less were considered as Johnson, Ali and Louis, Louis though was considered no1 usually at that time.

 

As I see it, the biggest problem with doing these top ten lists is that there is no criteria, or the criteria in one’s mind differs from one time to another. My list has and will fluctuate from one time to another. Also, you may look at one matchup and say fighter A beats fighter B and B beats C, and C beats D, but you might also think D beats A, which throws a money wrench into it all. Also, sometimes it is difficult to visualize the matchups because of the different eras and opponents, and the different sizes and body types. Also, there are lots of intangibles. Some of these you think if they fought four times it would be 2-2, so that also makes it difficult. I like to visualize these fights as fights to the finish. Very tough to do this and these are always open to debate (friendly I hope), but my current list is:

MUHAMMAD ALI

JOE LOUIS

LARRY HOLMES

EVANDER HOLYFIELD

LENNOX LEWIS

JACK JOHNSON

GEORGE FOREMAN

MIKE TYSON

JOE FRAZIER

ROCKY MARCIANO