Anyone here has Jack Johnson inside the Top 10 list ??

i'd say he was lucky to not have guys like Foreman and Frazier in his era

 

Well, so far anyway, it seems like nearly everyone rates him in their top 10!

01 Louis
02 Ali

03 Holmes
04 Foreman
05 Lewis

06 Frazier
07 Marciano
08 Holyfield

09 Johnson
10 Tyson

11 Dempsey
12 Liston
13 Jeffries
14 Wlad

15 Walcott
16 Charles
17 Schmeling

18 Wills
19 Patterson
20 Vitali
21 Bowe

22 Tunney
23 Langford
24 Jeanette
25 McVey

 

This is the pertinent question.

Johnsons resume is superior to that of Holmes, and this is a good yardstick to bracket him by.

 

They might just have gone down in history as two more members of the bum of the month club.

To be more than that, you have to split a series with Louis.

 

The last time I did a list, he was 10th. I understand why people want to rank him higher but I can't buy anything higher than 8th.

 

I think Johnson's competition was greater (in terms of wins) but Holmes beat guys that were relatively better than who Jack actually beat. Some of Jack's 'great' scalps are over great Middles and light heavies. Some fighters listed as quality scalps for Johnson were not actually as good as Marvis Frazier in terms of heavyweight quality. And I like Marvis by the way, he was no joke as some make out, so I'm not completely dismissing Johnson.

If Johnson had rematched Sam when he grew into his physique it would move him right up there for me. I hold the Jeffries win in higher regard than some though. Way better than Holmes' win over Ali. And I rate Tommy Burns as well, and IMO it's Jack's best win. Even though undersized Fitz was dealt with quickly. I like that.

Just don't rate Johnson's title reign all that much. I consider some of Larry's comp' underrated as well. I do think he had some really close bouts during his title reign. When Jack was way past his best he lost to Jess Willard. When Larry was past his he was sparked by Mike Tyson. Even later he still had enough to beat Ray Mercer.

I always rank the fighters in terms of: how good were they in their era? And how good was their era? Weaver was a better heavyweight than Ketchel, or Kaufman. Championship distance wind over Shavers, Norton, Snipes, 'Spoon, stand up to Phili' Jack, Flynn and shorter distance bouts with Jeanette.

Johnson was great, one of the greatest heavyweights of all time. IMO, one of the 15 greatest heavyweights of all time. He was not infallible, just like Larry. I also think Holmes gets top 3 sometimes based on the old 'Larry I'd the most under appreciated heavyweight champ' schtick that still gets rolled out. He isn't anymore, he gets his due and he's ranked just about right IMO.

For me, I have Foreman so high based on his anomaly achievement. His first career has one insanely good achievement of course, and a few solid wins over good contenders.

And Johnny Nelson said Axel Schulz was on 'roids so that robbery means little to me ;-)

 

Wow. I am stoned but I have just typed a lot of ****.

 

I thought you meant top 10 POUND FOR POUND list & voted no.

Doesn`t matter anyway because he`s not in my top 10 HW list either, not because I`m sure there are 10 HWs more worthy, just because I refuse to rank fighters with zero or bad footage, I need to see with my own eyes & study their style & skills... from the grainy footage tho I liked the way the Ketchel fight ended... quality :good

 

My list of the 10 best I`ve seen enough footage of is.....

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. Mike Tyson
5. George Foreman
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Joe Frazier
8. Sonny Liston
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Wladimir Klitschko

You could swap 3-8 around in any order, its all very close IMO... the only set positions are 1 & 2.

 

I do think that peak Ali (1964-67) was better than Joe Louis, if not as complete, personally.... I do think that those 2 are not only the greatest HWs but also the best in the divisions (filmed) history.

 

Up to 1950....numerous experts had Johnson as Numero Uno.

 

That was 62 years ago. There have been a lot of heavies since then and they have generally been bigger, stronger and better schooled.

 

I don't rate my list on legacy or anything like that.. I rate mine on H2H abilities. This hurts Johnson considerably in my eyes.. sure legacy wise he was good first black HW champion n all that...

H2H? He parries alright from what I've seen.. but he did what most other HW champions did.. be bigger then the other person and avoid being hit. (Ali, Holmes, Klits, Lennox, etc etc etc), so it raises a lot of questions for me when being compared H2H with people bigger and with arguably better jabs.

 

Watch out, folks will be reminding you that Tony Ross and fat old Alfalfa farmer Jeffries were HUUUUUUGE.