Louis & Dempsey in the ring together on TV 1951

OMG stop you are definitely a bore, do you bore your "friends", neighbors and family in your private life, give us a break. We are fan's trying to be fan's thats all and no less. You are about trying to sound "intelligent", and choosing your words. I would rather have a dis n dat type of guy then a boring person just being annoying and childish.

 

Aren't you the guy who accused Ray Robinson of not fighting any good black fighters?

 

I've read many a few books on and/or by Dempsey for years including the latest, Kahn's. You can not deny a few simple fact: Dempsey never faced a Black fighter after Johnson, to any objective eye he trumped up a defense on his slacker charges by having family members proclaim his measly prize fighting checks supported them, and that he was a common pimp who married a prostitute during his business as such.

He was a hard man born of hard times. I don't castigate him on this point unnecessarily. However, neither do I glorify the simple son of *****, either. He was a hard fighting prole in a hard world. Can't anyone just leave it at that without adding the Messianic complex?

Sorry if I try to "sound intelligent". Maybe you should try it some time.

 

Name one elite black fighter he fought, I am sure Archie wanted to fight him but never did, I know cos Moore was a LHW, but wait a minute, he did fight a light punching white LHW. George Costner, Holly Mims and guys of that ilk please they weren't elite. In those days all the good fighters fought whoever they put in front of them Ezzard Charles fought Maxim for example, giving away 16pds and 18 pds. Weight lines were blurred in those days. SRR fought Lamotta what 5 times, giving away wt in each fight. First fight 12pds, second fight 16pds, third fight 15pds, forth fight 10pds, fifth and last fight where Lamotta killed himself to make wt, 4 1/2pds. He would never have given any of the elite guys that much wt. instead he fought white for the most part. Again were all the guys SRR fought in his 25 title fights were the best available. Blacks in those were not given the star treament, so they had to do and fight whereever and whoever and at whatever weight they could.

 

You have to throw in garbage, like "the Messianic complex", you couldn't resist. Nobody comes on here to discuss anybodies intelligence or lack of.

You still talking garbage about the Dempsey - Johnson, fight, even knowing the facts or maybe you don't know the facts. Dempsey, at the time of the Johnson, was sleeping on a park bench, was eating sandwiches from a free lunch counters in bar's, while Johnson was at home and eating well. That Dempsey fought him to the final bell even with a broken rib, plus not having proper training and you find fault with that, why not dump on Joe Lous, he did the same thing.
Like they say in the streets "Messianic complex" yo mama!

 

Look who really cares if SRR, Louis and Dempsey, didn't fight whoever, black, or white for whatever reason, these men brought something to boxing and boxing is better for it they left a legacy and as long as men like a good fight they will always come to mind. Remember *'s, don't enter into conversations "yeah he was good but he didn't fight so and so, most people don't know who so and so is. Long may they live in our hearts and minds, eventhough..........

 

Yeah I already answered this before in a different thread but since you said one: Kid Gavilan.

Look I get you probably want to defend Dempsey and personally I think he's a great fighter but to accuse Ray Robinson of not fighting enough black talent is ridiculous. And you're missing the point when people criticize Dempsey its not, or shouldn't be, that he didn't fight enough good black fighters. Its that his number one contender for the better part of a decade didn't get a chance at him. Wills was the number 2 guy in the division forever, and he didn't get a shot which didn't happen with Ray or Joe Louis or whatever other black fighter you care to name.

To me the impact on Dempseys legacy its big but not catastrophic. Ah well...

 

LR, I try to avoid this freakin subject about Jack Dempsey not FIGHTING one man, namely Harry Wills ...I'm trying to avoid agita... But the solution
for these Dempsey "haters" who castigate HIM above any fighter on
this ESB forum, is simply to excavate Dempsey's remains and STRING him up so these "impartial" critics on ESB can FEEL more noble than others
on this forum who believe "enough is enough", as I do...Isn't it ironic that after Harry Wills retired after suffering two bad losses at the hand's of Jack Sharkey and the Basque, Paolino Uzcudun, Harry Wills became a successful
Harlem business man, and NEVER bad mouthed Jack Dempsey publicly til he died ??? And for these noble posters on ESB to castigate a beloved figure as the mature Jack Dempsey turned out to be, who paid the expenses of John Lester Johnson years later who was in a nursing home, and helped George Godfrey financially before his former sparring partner died, this same Jack Dempsey today is so damn villified by a few posters on this site EIGHTY FIVE years after his last fight ???
Until I joined this forum 2 or so years ago, from the time I first read about the history of boxing in the 1940s, there was so little if any hostility about Jack Dempsey, from black and white boxing people, compared to the
clinical negative obsession today from mainly a few noble ESB posters...
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"...Let him rest in peace.:hi:

 

You see Burt I have no problem with Dempsey, as I think ESB tends to dismiss him undeservedly. I don't think he was a virulent racist or scared of black people or any of that nonsens and think that his lack of resume its overblown. But to accuse Ray Robinson of not fighting enough good black fighters in order to prop up Dempsey is ridiculous.

 

That clip of Louis and Dempsey is so damn great to see, why ruin it with all this bulli****?
Arguing over education, or lack of one, saying Dempsey ducked guys-who cares.

In that video clip, I like how we get to see them in ring at a better quality than almost any fight film of them. One thing that stood out was how hard Louis jab was.He is only putting it out with little effort, but landing on target Dempsey gives him like some right hands others throw. I always heard his jab was devastating, in that film we actually get our best idea of what it was like.

 

This B.S. today on ESB castigating fighters of yesteryear for not fighting this guy, and that guy, cause he's black, too dangerous, too little draw, ad infinitum is so tiresome and it takes away what boxing was meant to be, a sport, not a social or political agenda....And Dempsey more than any other fighter is the main brunt of these social do gooders of today living in a more enlightened times...We are the PRODUCTS of our times, and today if Albert Einstein was reborn into this world, he would know so little of science and cosmology compared to a Steven Hawkins of today...And so with a Dempsey, a Robinson....Cheers.

 

This thread is still going on ? I missed it ... was attending the ceremony for Semus receiving the Noble Prize ... (LOL)

 

Point is this.....the best minds in boxing who saw him from ringside thought Dempsey was the greatest that they ever saw. Most of those who then saw Louis picked Jack to beat Louis. So to say Dempsey does not belong with Louis is pure revisionism. Both are two of the greatest fighters ever to live.

 

Amen Houdini, Little red, I know it's nit-picking but Kid Gavilan was a cuban, not a black American. If you look at SRR's record, seems the sugar man had problems with black fighters. After the Tommy Bell fight check to see if any black names standout as elite fighters, you will find a host of white fighters, Holly Mims gave Robinson a good time, Jones beat him, Turpin beat him and from what I heard Artie Towne used to pound the sugarman in sparring. My point is this Dempsey, Louis and Robinson all avoided black fighters like today they avoid the Cuban fighters, and all for the same reason hard fight and no money.

 

No, the point is this.....he drew the colour line(or his management did) either way, and so he never met his no.1 contender throughout his title reign. Nor did he face the middleweight who beat all the contenders he did carefully manage to face.