Was Liston's first loss to Clay a fix? The second fight was a prearranged dive. I have no doubt of that. How about the first fight? I'm not sure about this one. I voted "I don't know". Not a fix theory. This is the conventional wisdom. Liston had not fought more than 3 rounds since since September of 1960. He was out of shape and had not trained for the fight. He had spent most of his time drinking and partying. He reportedly was drunk the night before the fight. He didn't take Clay seriously. He predicted and believed a second round KO. He found Clay to be more than he could handle in his condition. He quit on his stool, knowing there was a guaranteed rematch. Fix theory: Liston was a 7-1 favorite to beat Clay. The people who controlled Liston had decided he would lose this fight. There could have been any number of reasons for this. It was planned that Liston would quit on his stool blaming a preexisting shoulder injury. He did have a bad shoulder. No one would believe a Clay KO. A decision wasn't a sure thing since the judges hadn't been bought. The bad shoulder seemed the best excuse. I think either of the above is possible. I lean toward "not a fix" but I wouldn't bet money on either of them.
No Ali was simply bad news for him, Liston could not get in with Ali moving around and keeping him at bay with a jab, Ali was taller and could not be bullied. He beat him fair two times. You seem set on diminishing Ali's legacy by discrediting and suggesting his 2 wins over Liston are frauds..... And of course judging by your post history and Liston being your favorite of course Ali couldn't beat him fairly and they had to be outside forces at work. Ali is better, he beat him twice, deal with it, it happened.
If Liston wanted 2 win , he would have come out 2 whatever round he did not . D rematch and other Ali fights only solidify d suspicion . Ali is not 1 of d gr8s , not even close 2 it . Muhammad Ali's career was a professional wrestling career planted in2 professional boxing , these 2 r not far apart .
Actually I discredited Liston more than I did Clay. I suggested he went into a title fight out of shape and hungover. Maybe that's who you mean.
Frank every time I see you post you write dumb ****... proof read and think to yourself. Do I really sound smart. 9/10 times you'll most likely realize you sound like a dumbass.
Generallt the way things work is you go with the standard unless proved otherwise. The most simple explanation is Ali won the fight fairly. Anything else involves a conspiracy no matter how elaborate and there's insufficient proof to even cast doubt on it. I understand people saying I don't know because on some level we don't know anything which is why the razor usually points you in the right direction. For instance I've never travelled to china so I don't know for sure anyone lives there, but if asked I'm gonna say ofcourse they do.
It was a 100% 'absolute' fix, To set-up the 'lucrative rematch' (closed circuit revenue). Then to 'set-up' the lucrative Cassius Clay vs Floyd Patterson bout in Las Vegas. For all of you doubters, Sonny Liston, ICP and Sports Vision Inc. all were recipients in large revenue's from those promotions. That is where the 'money' was, in the closed circuit promotions, not fighting in the ring. Stop looking at 'the fight' as the end all and be all. The fight in the ring was 'secondary'.
There has yet to be any evidence to prove, even on the balance of probabilities that either fight was fixed. Rumour and here say are fun to speculate with, but neither is on itself enough to prove anything in a Court of Law in either the USA or UK.
exactly but then again everyone back then thought clay was fixing all his fights cuz he was correctly predicting when he would ko his opponents lol. archie moore 4, cooper 5 etc.