Clay-Liston I / Was it fixed?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BillB, Aug 18, 2012.


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  1. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    There is zero proof to support the claim it was "probably fixed"
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 18, 2012
    lufcrazy, Aug 18, 2012
    #31
  2. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Exactly. I have never heard of anything other than here say and rumour. That would be shown up in court as nothing more than bravado and speculation.
     
    TBooze, Aug 18, 2012
    TBooze, Aug 18, 2012
    #32
  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    An irregular betting pattern emerged.

    No significant venue would touch the fight.

    It had to be held i a school.
     
    janitor, Aug 18, 2012
    janitor, Aug 18, 2012
    #33
  4. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    If this is all true, there is still a big leap needed to prove it 'probably' was fixed. Muhammad Ali changing his name and religion, leading to social unease, could easily be put forward as the reason for your last two examples.
     
    TBooze, Aug 18, 2012
    TBooze, Aug 18, 2012
    #34
  5. BillB

    BillB Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I just watched round 4 again a couple of times.

    Just as Senor Pepe said, Clay shows absolutely no signs of having trouble with his eyes during the round.

    It isn't until the camera zooms in on him in the corner that he starts the blinking routine.

    Chemicals in the eyes have an immediate effect. They don't wait for zoom cameras to arrive.

    I conclude the eye burning was faked. I don't know how anyone can watch that and conclude any differently.

    Here it is. Go watch it:

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkJPPWuo43E[/ame]
     
    BillB, Aug 18, 2012
    BillB, Aug 18, 2012
    #35
  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Even on that basis, some major venue would have taken the fight, e.g. Luxembourgh!

    Then there is the way the fight ended.

    Going down early in the first round, is the optimum way to throw a fight, because it is foolproof.
     
    janitor, Aug 18, 2012
    janitor, Aug 18, 2012
    #36
  7. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    there's a reason circumstantial evidence isn't something that holds much sway in the courtroom.

    I expect better from you Janitor.
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 18, 2012
    lufcrazy, Aug 18, 2012
    #37
  8. BillB

    BillB Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Also, watch how he is blinking his eyes.

    They are as big as dollars and he is batting his eyelashes.

    An irritant in the eye causes the eyelid to involuntary close. That's why you can't see. You have to force the eye open to see. That's just the opposite of what Clay is doing.

    It was faked.
     
    BillB, Aug 18, 2012
    BillB, Aug 18, 2012
    #38
  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    :rofl

    the proper way to go about things is to review evidence and then draw a conclusion. If the conclusion is already drawn your psyche will vlur any evidence prevented to you.
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 18, 2012
    lufcrazy, Aug 18, 2012
    #39
  10. BillB

    BillB Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Watch it and see what you conclude.
     
    BillB, Aug 18, 2012
    BillB, Aug 18, 2012
    #40
  11. Joe E

    Joe E Well-Known Member Full Member

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    According to Nick Tosches the odds fell from 7 to 1 to 3 to 1 just prior to the fight. That means that alot of Money came in on Ali at the last minute. Liston was under the Thumb of Frankie Carbo who had just stepped behind Bars in a Federal Pen. Maybe Frankie thought he owed himself a retirement payday?
     
    Joe E, Aug 18, 2012
    Joe E, Aug 18, 2012
    #41
  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I watch it and I see Clay complain of something hurting his eyes. who knows what that something is.

    Simple answer, something hurt his eyes.
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 18, 2012
    lufcrazy, Aug 18, 2012
    #42
  13. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    Let me see here.


    Cassius Clay can't see between the 4th and 5th Rounds, but gets up before the bell
    and starts to walk towards the referee to quit.

    It's Magic, he knew exactly where Referee Barney Felix was standing,
    yet he couldn't see because there was something in his eye's.

    It's A Miracle.

    Can some of the 'Cassius Clay Fans' explain that one to me.
     
    Senor Pepe', Aug 18, 2012
    Senor Pepe', Aug 18, 2012
    #43
  14. BillB

    BillB Well-Known Member Full Member

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    You saw that during the 4th round?

    What was the time on the clip? I want to see that.
     
    BillB, Aug 18, 2012
    BillB, Aug 18, 2012
    #44
  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    you said you've just watched the clip? Did you not see Clay complain about his eyes?
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 18, 2012
    lufcrazy, Aug 18, 2012
    #45
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