Top 30 fighters P4P from 1980-present

Interesting you have Mayweather over Whitaker. Why exactly? Is it in terms of winning at more weight classes or something more substantive?

Just felt like doing a Whitaker/Mayweather comparison on resume placing fighters that I think are on roughly similar levels when they fought them to compare:

Whitaker---------Mayweather

Chavez------------No equivalent
DLH---------------No equivalent
Azumah Nelson-----JMM
Vasquez------------DLH
MCGirt x 2----------Castillo x 2
Ramirez x 2---------Mosley
Mayweather---------Corrales
Haugen-------------Chavez
Pendleton-----------Cotto
Pineda--------------Hatton
Brazier--------------Hernandez
Hurtado------------Judah
Nazario-------------Manfredy
Paez----------------Vargas
Rivera--------------Baldomir
Diaz----------------Sosa
Lomeli--------------Diaz
Jones---------------Gatti
No equivalent--------Corley

IMO Whitaker tops him at the top end quite quite markedly, especially since I consider the DLH fight a close win for Pea.

Mayweather maybe has a bit more depth, but again, you could throw in some depth guys on Pea's resume too like Cardona, Jacobs, Rodriguez, but I'll leave them out.

 

30. Roberto Duran
29. Aaron Pryor
28. Mike McCallum
27. Felix Trinidad
26. Joe Calzaghe
25. Wilfred Benitez
24. Mike Tyson
23. James Toney
22. Shane Mosley
21. Wilfredo Gomez
20. Juan Manuel Marquez
19. Marco Antonio Barrera
18. Erik Morales
17. Azumah Nelson
16. Lennox Lewis
15. Evander Holyfield
14. Oscar De La Hoya
13. Ricardo Lopez
12. Michael Spinks
11. Salvador Sanchez
10. Floyd Mayweather Jr
9. Khao Galaxy
8. Manny Pacquiao
7. Thomas Hearns
6. Bernard Hopkins
5. Marvin Hagler
4. Julio Cesar Chavez Sr
3. Roy Jones
2. Pernell Whitaker
1. Ray Leonard

Something like that...

 

Why do so many have Calzaghe ahead of McCallum? :think

 

PowerPuncher is possibly one of my favorite human beings of all time!!!

 

None of the 90s Welters\lights or below Feathers should be ahead of McCallum either imo.Except Whitaker.

Surely nobody thinks Shane Mosley, Tito, ODLH, Erik Morales etc were better fighters?

I'm on the side of Chavez below Pea as well.I know the weight making issues he had, but the fact he tended to be in life or death fights more often than not when the competition went to a level above decent solid fighters has always been a questionmark in the back of my mind regarding him being rated so highly.

His best performances were against Martinez and a Rosario that had long been found out(but his obivous flaws were glossed over by many in hte boxing media at the time in order to hype a superfight) and abandoned the early skills that made him a name.So he exposed Bramble's lack of heart for a heavy punch, big deal.He was already damaged goods and never going to be as good as initially thought as Ramirez, Davis, Camacho had shown.

Still a very impressive performance but enough to be the lynchpin of being considered one of the top 5 best fighters of the past 30 years.I'm not sure that kind of talent was ever truly there.Somewhere in the top 15 sure, but i'd be tempted to leave him out of a top ten.

 

Mante,

Which ten fighters would you be tempted to place in front of Chavez from 1980 to now?

 

JOnes Jr, Hagler, Leonard, Hearns, Pea, Tyson, Spinks, Holmes, Chang, Sanchez, Pedroza, Nelson, Fenech, Hopkins, McCallum, Kalambay, Toney, Holy, Laciar, Zapata, Watanabe, Roman, Lopez, Too sharp, Arbachakov, Pacquiao

maybe more

Don't get me wrong i 'd take half of that group out if pressured to bother about stuff long title runs and general longevity...and i'm not saying i flat out think these are all fighters that are better by any means, but i'd be tempted y'know. if just looking at who i think was more effective at their peak.Best on best i wouldn't favour 90s Chavez over many of those fighters, so it evens out the doubt about giving him his due over longevity a bit for me.

I'm basically looking at the 80s one for the kind of h2h\peak effectiveness list i'd bother to do and he's just not someone i'd consider an outright lock for a top 3-5 placing, he could get edged by a fair number of fighters imo.More often than not i probably would have him lurking around the bottom half though.

 

1. Ray Leonard
2. Roy Jones
3. Pernell Whitaker
4. Roberto Duran
5. Floyd Mayweather
6. Marvin Hagler
7. Thomas Hearns
8. Manny Pacquaio
9. Evander Holyfied
10. Michael Spinks
11. Julio Cesar Chavez
12. Bernard Hopkins
13. Lennox Lewis
14. James Toney
15. Mike Tyson

I do rate performance and especially dominance very highly. Ray is a no brainer, even though I think Roy is a better fighter. Just too many history making wins and fights.

 

Fair enough. I think it's hard to make a case for a lot of those fighters being 'above' CHavez in h2h/peak effectiveness myself, but you could argue a fair few hang on his level quite comfortably.

Chavez did have his fair share of prime struggles, but a lot of the guys you mentioned also had those prime struggles.

Perhaps some of their struggles were more 'motivational/mental' issues-related rather than strict ability issues, which is why you're probably tempted to put them above Chavez.

I usually give Chavez a pass on the Lockridge & Laporte fights, he did look bone dry to me (especially against Juan) and probably should have moved up to lightweight as early as 1985, but still I do think that fighters with a good workrate and the toughness to hang with Chavez will give him problems, so he'd probably have his hands full with a lot of the gritty, hard as nails 'lower level' greats in the lightweight division like Lou Ambers, Lew Tendler, Jimmy Carter etc.

Mind you he was pretty complete, and you could poke stylistic holes in many of the fighters mentioned in your list too...

Personally, if I'm making a peak h2h ability list from 1980 to now, I'd have a handful ahead of him (Hagler, Leonard, Whitaker, Hearns and perhaps Jones Jr & Salvador Sanchez). But I probably wouldn't go further than that...

 

Or less fighting and inferior opposition. Having Floyd about Pea is completely nonsenical IMO.

I don't have Floyd in my top 50 though. I consider him the most overrated fighter of the last 30 years, rated by most on the back of being aesthetically pleasing.

I'd have Chang>Floyd just about. Apart from going up more weights and remaining undefeated Chang has the far superior resume and is clearly as talented a fighter.

Mike Spinks would clearly be above Floyd.

 

Yeah...

One guy was fighting peak Hoya and Tito coming into his mid 30's, the other's facing aging Cotto's and Victor Ortiz's.

Put a prime Tito or Hoya in with Floyd today and you can market the fight as 'The Career Ender'.

 

Khaosai Galaxy?! Why? Khaosai above Floyd? Floyd certainly has a better '0' than Khaosai and is clearly more skilled, relying less on sheer physical advantages than Khaosai, who was just a quality weight cutter.

 

Did he beat the no.2 contender in his division? No, he didn't. So shut up.

 

:mj

DEAL WITH IT, Sumbu-fanboy!!!