Anyone here has Jack Johnson inside the Top 10 list ??

I think those who underrate Johnson partly base their arguments on the modernization of the sport. Some point to his title reign which was somewhat affected by the society of his time and his country's government doing their best to legislate against him and other black fighters. There's a constant belief I'm seeing on ESSB that fighters who come after, generation by generation, are greater with respect to the advancement of the sport.

I read stuff saying Johnson would struggle mightily with the top contenders and second tier heavyweights of the later years while getting decisioned or KOed by just about every heavyweight champion who came after him.

I don't think that's true at all. The one consistency of Johnsons greatness always credited was his defense which got better with age. Johnson was always a thinking mans fighter in the ring as well and aside from Ali and Louis was the best at strategizing a fight. The people I've known who were alive in Johnson's time always rate him at the top.

Top ten all time heavyweight champion and top ten all time greatest fighters any weight class.

 

I'm actually the complete opposite. I think boxing is getting worse and worse as the years go by.

I still don't have Johnson in the top ten.

 

I rate him just outside my top 10. Certainly between 11 - 15.

 

Yeah, because of course at the time Jeffries fought Johnson he was in his prime. Heck, I could even point to him being beaten by Jess Willard as a point that Johnson has ISSUE with fighting someone bigger then him, who was in his prime..

and almost no one has Jess Willard rated above Lennox Lewis Ali Larry Holmes etc etc etc

 

Head to head vs. histories field, or defined by title lineal title defenses not a chance.

Johnson apologists aside, he was Ko’d by smaller men, floored by smaller men, drew with middles, suffered losses by some who out hustled him and had less ability, DQ’d for hitting low, quit in at least one fight, and as champion skirted the best available ( top 4 ) competition. If half of the above happened to Louis, Ali, Holmes, Marciano, or Lewis anyone who’s honest would say their rating would take a tumble.

From a historical perspective, sure you can say top 10 for Johnson. Johnson was the first lineal black heavyweight champion, though Peter Jackson’s British Empire championship could be viewed as a near equal in his time. The first to do anything has instant legend status.

 

Interesting.

He is a top 10 in the opinion of 61% of the posters in Classic. (A surprising number to me)

20% of the posters don´t think he is a Top 10 HW.

14% think that he is an ATG but not a Top 10 HW....

2% don´t like lists.....

 

A credible top 10 must include Johnson. To do what he did in that time period as a black man speaks for itself.

 

How do you account for the fact that EVERY serious boxing writer rates Johnson among the greatest of all time? :huh


Obviously they are wrong and you are right .


http://coxscorner.tripod.com/johnson.html



http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/cbzf...l-Master-Why-Jack-Johnson-Would-Be-King-Today

 

he's my number3.

 

Apollack, I'm curious which other heavyweights you consider as having a non-weak case for Top 10?

 

I just don't see how he can't be in the TOP TEN HW of all time. The only way I could see that being possible (and I still don't agree even then) is if you base it SOLELY on h2h matchups... If you factor in resume, title reign, dominance of a era and h2h abilities.. I see no way he's not top ten...

 

****in' A Skippy.......:yep

MR.BILL:good

 

So definitely a top 10 for civil rights.

How about for heavyweight boxing?

 

:deal

 

In my opinion...He has to be in the top 10...period.