Anyone here has Jack Johnson inside the Top 10 list ??

Harry Wills top 10, lol

 

I agree with you Flea completely..The HW division is a joke...terrible decisions by judges..And as of right now were in a Mayweather/Pac/Bradley in whats gonna turn into a bitchfest im sure...Its gonna get worse before it gets better my man!..Don King just needs to die already So Arum and Golden Boy Promotions can just take over.....Oh and bring back 15 round in that joke of a division we call our HW's....what do you think?:canada

 

Eh? It's GBP and TR killing the sport.

 

this list really surpises me, especially with Holyfield and Frazier so high. Appolack, i am interested to know where you rank Sullivan, Corbett, jeffries and Fitz and perhaps even Hart and Burns.

I am guessing that you are valuing mostly head to head ability adn film, but it is interesting to see roughly how you place teh above guys, given your level of expertise.

 

Like I said, I go back and forth, and am willing to listen to contrary arguments. I think Holyfield had a wonderful blend of speed, power, skill, chin, guts and toughness. But then again Bowe beat him two out of three, so that also opens a can of worms re the rating, or the placement of Bowe. You can discuss this till you are blue in the face. Frazier, well I just think he was pretty darn good. Speed, power, footwork, head movement, toughness, phenomenal conditioning.

 

Well, I listed my top ten, but you could easily rotate some, and remove and add others, and not be out of line. You could potentially add Jeffries or Sullivan, and even Tunney or Dempsey. And more modern lovers could insert Bowe or Vitaly Klitschko. Tough to know when it comes to pure fantasy. All we do know is what they in fact did in their eras. Also depends on how you weigh longevity vs. light that burns twice as bright but half as long/short peak and how you view their opponents.

 

Yup, even top 5

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus

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So definitely a top 10 for civil rights.

How about for heavyweight boxing?

I'll second that as well. His record against the best black contenders before for many years while being denied a shot at the heavyweight championship speaks loud enough.

 

He beat a 156 pound Langford, a teenage McVea and Joe Jeanette when he had a couple fights.

If that is how low the bar is set to get in your top 10, there must be 100's in there.

 

You're forgetting HOW long his title reign was... You're forgetting that McVea and Joe weren't as green as you make them out ot be. You forget Johnson also wasn't primed yet and filled out to his ideal weight. You also forget, he didn't just beat the guys you mentioned.. he CRUSHED them with ease, and most multiple times. You forget that the men he beat pre-title reign and some after.. were the BEST the sport had to offer. That is one important criteria when talking about ranking. Dominance in the era you fought in. Johnson had that in spades. To put it simply.. when you factor in the above, and even though you dont' like his compeition... he should certainly be ahead of people you place in front of Johnson.. people like Holmes.. Liston.. just to name 2. Also, let's not kid ourselves here buddy.. You have him in your top ten.. so me having him inside the five.. shouldn't illicit.. OMGZORS.. You have him in your top 5... Surely not.

 

This.

 

This

 

I rank him 9th. Behind Frazier, Lewis, Holmes, Tyson but ahead of Liston, Holyfield, & Dempsey.

 

I rank him very high , but as Adam Pollack has said ,its very subjective. The fact that a man who lost the title in 1915, nearly a century ago, is still given his props is a pretty good testament imo.:good

 

His title reign was 7 years and a complete indistinguished money grab which he absolutely deserved. Ross, a draw with OBrien, a fix with Ketchell, a dubious draw with Johnson... Christ Almighy... And yes, McVea and Jeanette were green as spring grass. And if you are going to taut his McVea, Langford era, you must include the Klondike, Choynski and Hart losses. Or are we just being selective here?

Yes, he can make the top ten cut because he did represent the advent of moden boxing on many levels and had the upper hand on his paltry era.