If Jeffries Fought Rocky 3 times 15rds ,Would He Win 1,2,3? "

>>Yes, better speed. Have you seen Jeffries work out clips? Likely not! He shows fast hands and feet. He makes his man miss, and he owns him in the clinches. Watch it sometime. Jeffries athletic ability is much better than Marciano’s. Reports of the day say Jeffries moved like a light weight. Many commented on Jeffries speed, including guys like Corbett, and Sullivan.

>>Again, read the papers. Jeffries had a good slip and duck type of defense. He made many miss, including Corbett. Fitz was a destroyer, and a better puncher than anyone Marciano faced. As for cuts, Journeyman badly cut up Rocky. See the Simmons fight.

>> Footwork irrelevant? No reply is needed here. Now your sounding like the “ wank “

>>Um, What were the weight of past their prime versions of Charles and Moore that Marciano fought? Pretty close to Sharkey and Corbett, correct? Marciano didn’t exactly blow away smaller guys. In fact he took a little over 9 rounds on average to do the job in his championship fights, and this includes what can be viewed as a quit job by Walcott in the 2nd fight, where he looks at the ref, and does not get up. As for weight, Marciano fans cannot critise Jeffries opponents weights, because in some cases the guys who Jeffries fought outweighed Rocky who’s best weight was under 190 pounds!

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>>Better by a country mile. Absolute crap. Few would agree with you. More wankage from you...

>>And you are saying this based on what? There have been references of Sharkey being a lot like Marciano. Keep in mind, Jeffries beat Sharkey when he lacked top level experience in the first match, and ruined him in the second match, even when his shoulder went out in round two when he floored Sharkey.

>>> Why would historians be biased against Marciano? Please explain. Many of the times felt Rocky was a sold champion, but not as good as many before him. No worries, you can ring in on the Jack Johnson vs. his successors thread later.

 

Nat Fleischer saw them both and rated Jeffries well over Marciano.
I've read his criticisms of Rocky. He acknowledges his power, strength, endurance and determination. He faults him on his lack of technical skill and the inaccuracy of his punches.

I don't know that much about Jeffries, but I think Marciano would have given any fighter fits. I wouldn't bet against him versus anybody who ever fought, including Ali.

In a serious moment, Ali told Cosell that he thought he could outpoint him or maybe stop him with cuts. He went on to say that talking about fighting Marciano and actually getting in the ring with him were two different things.

 

Stopped reading there.

 

Pretty much everyone of Jeffries day fought upright or slightly bent over at best, he would not know how to handle Rock's crouched down nearly bent over style and head movement. Also Rocky fought in a different age, the style is more evolved overall

Edge for style:Marciano

From this style Rocky maintain great head movement, when watched in slow motion you see how great his defense really was. Again Jeffries is not accustomed to this style, the whole night Rocky would be slipping and connecting with counter rights.

Defense: Marciano

Given styles Jeffries would have an easier time moving, not to mention he was a phenomenal athlete, though I don't see speed playing a huge factor.

Speed: Jeffries

Jeffries has went 25 full round, I think it is safe to say he has the edge for stamina. Though I will add Marciano trained as if he was going to fight for 25.

Stamina: Jeffries

As for punch power, I have no doubt Jeffries Could hit hard, but Rocky was something else, He maintained his strength through the whole fight, and every punch was thrown with bad intentions and was harmful to the Opponent.

Power: Marciano

IMO, Marciano gives Jeffries a beating, he would be no match for Marciano's more evolved style and power.

Edit: Also note, I'm not bashing Jeffries, I just think Marciano is all wrong for him style wise, and I think Marciano's smaller build plays in his favor, harder to hit and harder for Jeffries to get in a clinch.

 

Just too hard to say based on actually footage of Jeffries to give a serious answer ... it would appear to be a hell of a fight for sure ...

 

Yes I have seen clips of the man which is what im basing this part on.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CauVMvNspIY&feature=related[/ame]


You can watch clips of Marciano ducking, weaving, bobbing punches too expect against better quality opposition. Not men who swung like amateurs like the man in the clip. In any cases all his speed and defensive prowess didn't seem to help him when it mattered in the ring his face was constantly bloodied up and his nose broken numerous times. Jeffries "much better" athleticism would account for nothing in this match I don't see how it is relevant. About as relevant as Marciano hitting a baseball over 300 feet.

I'm sure Jeffries made people miss much like Marciano did but is that really going to be a deciding factors? The same way I can read Jeffries ducking a punch here and there much like I can read his face being turned to pulp by much smaller and older men.

Also no Fitz is not a better puncher than Moore or Walcott probably not harder and def. not better.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jrnlXixTgc[/ame]


Yes footwork is irrelevant because Jeffries doesn't implement it in a way that would beat Marciano. If he fought like Holmes or Ali footwork wise than yes it is relevant but as it stands it isn't. Please elaborate on why you think it is?

Charles and Moore were both naturally bigger than Fitz and Corbett and I'd wager in better nick when each faced them. Both Charles and Moore could go to 200 and above without much trouble, look at pictures of them compared to Fitz and Corbett and tell me that they arn't bigger. Maybe Marciano took a while to blast them out but how long did Jeffries take to blast of glass chinned super middleweights? Not in 25 rounds could he do the job.

As for Sharkey like Marciano the only similarity is they're both supposed to be pressure fighters Marciano was obviously of a much higher quality, hit harder, was more active, better chin and just plain better.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj2jOpoecfc[/ame]

Not great quality but I can see whats going on, niether look remotley like Marciano in their style. Jeffries was a much bigger man and fought him for close to 50 rounds and couldn't do the job on either occasion. Be honest if Marciano fought a man who weight 155 and couldn't put him away after two 25 round fights people would consider him a joke particularly considering the much smaller gloves and no mouthguards.

Like I said before historians are very biased towards certain eras, that's all there is to it. Nat Fleischer would never put Ali over Dempsey despite the fact most would.

 

Sorry, Bill, but this is such Classicist bull****. Fleischer was 18 years old when Jeffries retired. How can his memory from that time accurately compare another fighter 50 years later when Nat was in his late 60's? His preference comes down to simply old man syndrome... "Back in my day..."

Jeffries was an amateur who took far too long to cut down lilliputian gobs, Fancy Frisco Dan's and old assed freckled freaks.

 

It's kinda silly seeing people hide behind the opinion of bygone historians.

Boxing is a subjective sport and one man's champ is another man's chump.

People should have enough conviction to make up their own mind based on evidence they can process themselves.

The case for jeffries beating rocky is pretty non-existant. At best you can say Rocky is unproven against a prime opponent the size of Jeffries, the footage of Jeffries is limited and Jeffries stopped his cruiser sized opponents so it's a tough call.

Realistically speaking, Rocky at a much higher level than James. Is much more advanced in skill and technique. Has actual primary evidence backing up his skillset. And the biggest guy he battered was a version of Louis who's just as proven as James himself was despite being faded.

I don't care what nat or anyone else thinks. I'm a man who can make up his own mind.

 

Fitzsimmons outworked prime Jeffries, Corbett probably did also, though he is a completlely irrelevent comparison. What about Sharkey. I would have thought he had a slightly better work rate than Jeffries.

 

Are you serious or just trying to simulate debate?

Jeffries is considerably bigger and heavier.

Jeffries reach advanatage will be similar to the reach advantage enjoyed by say Lewis or Klitchsko over Fitzsimmons (Though i havent looked up these stats i am sure most understand the point).

Stylistically, the similar fight between similar all time greats is Frazier (Marciano) v Foreman (Jeffries). So many people tell me that styles make fights and that it is the styles that cost Frazier that fight. Does this not appy here?

We know both fighters will use teh crouch. We are pretty sure that jeffries will try to keep rocky at range with the jarring left hand straight jolt. We also know that Rocky is harder to hit than given credit for and he will slip and duck his way inside while throwing punches. If Jeffreis continually lands the hard left, Rocky will reset and do the same, but Jeffries will win the fight.

ON the other hand if Rocky does get inside, we know that Jeffries has the ability to catch him with his killer left hand hook that knocked Corbett cold in a punch. It could do the same to Rocky no matter how tough he is. And both fighters will retain their power in the fight, so it could happen at any time. We also know that when Rocky will be smothered and clinched when in close, This is one of his strengths where he can utilise his greater size and power. Clinching was never used muchin Rocky's days, compared to Jeff's. We also know that Hitting on the break is not allowed. We dont know whether or not Jeffries will actually hit on the break and if he does what action the referee will take. But if he does, one clean punch can turn this fight.

The control of the clinch will also be very important. Jeffries will have the advantage, but the Referrees controlling of this will have an effect on the outcome of the fight.

Marciano of course has reasons why he could and should win, but to say Jeffries has no advantages is ridiculous. It is arguable that he has an advantage in virtually every category.

 

Marciano would knock Jeffries out, just a different class of fighter and the best in a much better more evolved competitive period of the sport, as opposed to Jeffries semi-pro era

 

I refuse to debate with a man willing to make those two points.