Agree absolutely. I think Holyfield gives him a hell of a fight. Holy and Tunney are the two that give me the most pause sub-200 against The Rock. It's funny. I used to really underrate Rocky, but closer watching of the filmed evidence swayed me... a lot. He was trained very well, a great student and a freak of an athlete.
Yes holy is worth a shout also. I just love his consistency and application. He could fight the last round like it was the first despite throwing non-stop bombs and shipping his fair share in return. He is a well tuned fighting machine, not in a textbook sense like Tunney but in a real world sense whereby unless you have a huge advantage in size you just aren't going to beat him.
And at the same time, the Tyson fear factor (which did help him sometimes) is completely discarded? Guys like Seldon, Bruno, Stewart and even Spinks came in **** SCARED of Tyson. There is a chance other fighters could/would come in with this mentality
190lb Holy' would get stopped late by Marciano IMO. Tunney is the best shout. Over 10 a lock of course. Over 15 I'd still bank on Rocky having a serious argument. Too close to call.
Holy takes too many punches to favour over rocky I agree. Tunney could anyone under 200 beat him at 10 rounds? He sure as **** aint getting knocked out and who has the ability to outbox him?
I'd favour Joe Louis and Jack Dempsey to beat him. I think Jack Johnson might well be able to contain him too. And a fresher prime Ezzard Charles of c. 1950 would be a decent bet too. imo. I think Marciano would beat Tyson. Tyson's style would suit him.
Well, Tyson and Marciano would be on top of each other. I see them clashing up close and it would be messy and ugly and fought on the inside - that would favour Marciano, imo. He'd have better success with little space. He'd land shots from unconventional angles. Tyson would prefer something neater. I'd favour Tyson to make short work of some of the men who would give Marciano serious trouble. But head-to-head, I'd favour Marciano. That's just the way i see the styles meshing.
Sometimes when styles clash, the slab of meat jumps up and kills the butcher. All credit goes to Larry Merchant for that last quote.
like Frazier he's just on the other side of the 200 pound border. By that I mean that today, I'd imagine Louis and Frazier would be HW's, Rocky would be a cruiserweight. For the record, I think Louis does beat Rocky prime for prime. I think Louis beats everyone bar Ali actually.
Joe Louis weighed under 200 in some of his best prime fights. He beat Max Baer, Max Schmeling, Jimmy Braddock, Primo Carnera, Billy Conn, Arturo Godoy, Tommy Farr ... at sub-200. It seems unfair to bar him from the sub-200-pounders 'tournament' and give the accolades to someone else. imo.
perhaps you consider it unfair. I don't. All I do is consider, when at prime, whether a man would be a HW today or a cruiser. out of all those I'd consider to be a cruiserweight by today's standards, Rocky is the h2h goat.
On the nights he beat those men, Joe Louis was a cruiserweight in today's terms. There's no need for guesswork or speculation. The man was sub-200.