Is Ali's 1st reign an underrated cleaning out of a division?

As usual,you've nailed it,Bokaj.

 

:good


Ali's best phase 1964-67

Ali's second best phase 1972-74.

 

Great post.

 

Any possible decline on Tyson's part was down to him getting complacent and I don't see that as an excuse. To keep in shape is part of what makes a great champion. Decline due to age or forced inactivity is one thing, but lacking preparations isn't any type of valid excuse.

With that said Ali was 38, ****ed up on Thyrolar, probably in the early stages of Parkinson's Syndrome and fighting Holmes before he copped such a one-sided beating as 24-year old Tyson got against Douglas.

 

17 of his 29 fights where against cruisers.

 

Thanks!:good

 

If you ever want to see a heavyweight with a slower performance than Valuev then watch Sonny Liston. His arms (84") look freakishly long and disproportionate. Sometimes he throws them around like foreign bodies (similar to overlong pajama sleeves) and there is always an aura of uncoordination around Sonny Liston:

• Wild swings
• Missed punches
• Telegraphed haymakers
• Jabs that often fail to connect
• Defense wide open (cannot use his arms to properly cover himself)
• Not throwing a punch but stretching out the arm and then march forward

Now, don't get me wrong: Sonny Liston's REFLEXES (= dodging punches) were OK. And Sonny Liston's jabbing (= his left hand) had some good moments, though it was usually rather slow and lacking the *snap* of Riddick Bowe or Wladimir Klitschko or Lennox Lewis or Joe Louis. Calling his jab "The best jab in the division" (as some nostalgists try to brainwash us) is merely fog talk. Just watch Sonny Liston vs cruiser Eddie Machen (= prime Sonny, 28 years, in the middle of his career) or Liston vs Patterson and how bad Sonny Liston's performance actually is. Liston's main jabbing asset was to be able to hook his jab (even if the opponent stood further away) because of his arm length.


Slomo Liston is so slow that a smart young guy (22yro) like Muhammad Ali could run away and clinch the whole fight (similarly to David Haye against Nikolay Valuev). When Liston fought Ali (1st fight) the judges were utterly confused who won the rounds (the runner or the roller) and they scored it 57-57, 56-58 and 58-56 (= draw) before Liston retired in his corner because of a deranged shoulder (from all the missed punches). Sonny is so slow that Clay/Ali's performance and reflexes look somewhat fast although objectively Clay/Ali wasn't the fastest either (and was nearly always hit at will by Sonny as soon as he was within reach): Just watch 35 seconds into round #4 how Clay gets hit by a Slomo jab.
Liston's lack of speed is comparable to Eric Esch's and that's quite remarkable since Sonny's weight was in the range of what-we-nowadays-call cruiserweight:


There are 3 famous cherry-pickers (= guys whose records look impressive until you scrutinize their opponents): LaMar Clark, Eric Esch and Sonny Liston (with LaMar Clark being so bad, that I won't mention him again).


Sonny Liston's WINopponents CONSIST WITHOUT EXCEPTION ONLY of

• bums
• guys who have been KO'ed before

24 of his 50 wins are from guys who have lost the last fight they fought before.


32 of his 50 wins were on an opponent that had lost 1 or 2 fights in their last 2 fights before Liston.

 

op

 

dyna,

Maybe you watched Sonny's fight with Howard 'Honeyboy' King on
March 23, 1960 from The Auditorium in Miami Beach.

Utterly slow, was an understatement. Bulky, ponderous and lumbering. This from
a 211 lb. 'so-called fighting machine' who out-weighed his opponent by 16 lbs.,
and was fighting an over-blown and 32 year-old Light-Heavyweight who had
gone 1-8-2 in his previous '11-bouts'.