Julio Cesar Chavez greater than Joe Louis, yes?

Let's not act like Joe's competition was stellar during his title reign.. it wasn't... No fault of his own but it really wasn't.

 

here is something for you to consider I don't think you have thought about yet.

In the early 90's, I spent about 3 hours talking to Al Braverman when he was the matchmaker for Don King Productions. Al was a guy you could talk to and sure swore a lot. And you also have to remember it was a different and easier time because there were multiple belts so a champion never faced the top 3 fighters in his division. Even if a guy fights the #1 contender, he is not fighting 3 other world champions in his same weight class.

Condensed and cleaned up, I spoke with Al about Chavez/Ruddock and then a few other guys. Al pointed out something very very simple--his job was to get Julio wins. Not losses and not tough fights, his job was to get the guy wins only. So there were numerous guys not on the Chavez opponent list and it was never ever a case of a Hagler who put his name on contracts and said to insert any opponent.

Braverman thought he was a good fighter alright but he also thought he had to do a real good job himself to continually find and scout the opponents Chavez could beat. He patted himself on the back with his matchmaking skills, but like he said you try and find the guy a bunch of easy title defenses. So Al had to be concerned about things like too many wars and his guy absorbing punishment and the continual wear and tear factor. He had to pick opponents that would not or could not do that.

He asked me if I thought anyone else anywhere could have done a better job than he did. I said no, and it was true---excellent excellent matchmaking in an era where that was possible.

Now, if Joe Louis had fought with 3 other belts available---just how do you think his matchmaking is with his great manager and great trainer?

 

Awesome post zadfrak. Never considered that before.

 

...and who often rely on boxrec to prove their "arguments"
:good

 

Louis would knock out Chavez within 3 rounds.

 

End of thread.

 

Bum of d month was bum of d munth 4eal regardless of what they meant it 2b back then , u idiots .

I think i'd rank Louis' opponents h2h (by d time that he fought them) like :
1. Buddy Baer
2. Abe Simon
3. Arnold Cream
4. Ezzard Charles
5. Jimmy Bivins
6. Lou Nova
7. Max Baer



..
..


d rest .


maybe places $4-#7 could have been mixed a bit differently .

It was in fact less than Kirk Johnson , Corey Sanders , Lance Whitaker , Hasim Rahman*2 , Robert Hawkins*2 , Jeff Wooden .

much much less .

 

Possible and interesting, so who was Chavez actually kept away from though? They certainly went all in against Whitaker and Taylor so it certainly was 'win ratio'. Rosario and Ramirez were the best at LW bar Whitaker. Maybe McGirt at 140 could have happened and maybe an earlier fight with Camacho. Brian Mitchell at 130 would have been a good fight. How good were Pineda and Coggi at 140?

The Whitaker rematch and Randall rubber were obviously avoided. But overall Chavez fought most of the best of his era

 

I don't think Chavez went out of his way to fight either Whitaker or Camacho.

His choice to fight Roger Mayweather at 140 who he had already beaten and who Whitaker had dominated, rather than stay at 135 and face Whitaker, who he must have known beat Ramirez and got robbed seemed a bit of a duck to me. When he beat Rosario and Ramirez at lightweight he knew he hadn't beaten the division's best fighter.

Also could have made a fight with Camacho around 86 or again in the late 80's at 140, though in fairness to Chavez by that stage I don't think Hector was a better fighter than Roger.

Pineda was a better 140 fighter than Mayweather for mine. Roger was more skilled but Pineda was more a physical specimen and would have caused Chavez some issues with his physicality. Chavez would have won though, no doubt.

 

No.

 

Well Sweet Pea moved from 135 directly to 147, to "fight better competition", I guess you could say that was his way of avoiding Julio.

 

Louis was 26-0 in title fights won and 25-0 in defenses. Not 26-0 in defenses. Ricardo Lopez holds the record with Louis for the most consecutive title bouts without a loss, 26. Altough one of those was a technical draw.

 

Julio couldnt carry Joe's jockstrap

 

Debatable.

John L Sullivan or George Dixon might legitimately be at 30+.