"Liniment In The Eyes"

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Senor Pepe', Jul 1, 2012.


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  1. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Still waiting for one link to video or written account of a pro wrestler using the 'linament on the body' trick. The whole thread is based on a fallacy.
     
    Saintpat, Jul 21, 2012
    Saintpat, Jul 21, 2012
    #31
  2. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    Round 4,

    By mid-round, Sonny was landing his hard left jab, but at no point in the round, did
    Cassius Clay blink.

    Yes, he was stunned a bit from the power jabs, but he wasn't blinking or rubbing his eyes,
    or not one complaint to Referee Barney Felix.

    At the end of Round 4, Cassius put his right glove on the top ring rope strand, and
    slid it as he walked back tp his corner.

    When he sat down, he started to pull that fake crap about his eyes.

    But the kicker, the 'creepy peeper camera' (hand held ringside camera), suddenly had a
    clear view into Cassius Clay's corner, with Cassius posing at the camera lens, blinking
    his eyes.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Even, TNT Network 'blow-by-blow announcer, Steve Ellis seemed scripted in his call at the end of
    the 4th Round, stating that something is wrong with Clay's eyes, without having any true knowledge of
    what was going on.

    Cameraman, Joseph Casale, was instructed prior to the 4th Round, to go into Clay's corner after the 4th Round,
    and focus on the fighter, from Clay's left side, where he was told that he would have a clear view.
     
    Senor Pepe', Jul 21, 2012
    Senor Pepe', Jul 21, 2012
    #32
  3. Legend X

    Legend X Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I think the general gag of the "bad guy using a blinding substance" is pretty much accepted though.
     
    Legend X, Jul 22, 2012
    Legend X, Jul 22, 2012
    #33
  4. Legend X

    Legend X Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    What do you find so crazy about it ?

    The suspicions that the Clay-Liston fight in Miami was fixed or fake in some one way is well trod territory.
    Lots of respected people will say it might have been fixed in some way. You might reject that totally but it's hardly the wacko stuff you make it out to be.

    I don't believe the whole fight was scripted.
    And I do believe Clay had something in his eyes.
    So hopefully I don't count as one of the 'tin foil bizzarros'. :D

    I wouldn't dismiss the idea that there may have been some acting involved along the way though. Clay was certainly not trying to hide his distress, as many fighters in similar situations have done. Maybe it was just his natural child-like mannerisms, I don't know. But it does look a bit cartoonish, let's be honest.

    The influence of professional wrestling on young Cassius Clay IS an interesting subject, imo. Rather than being a unique one-off original, Clay's braggadocious act and sense of drama was always indebted to "Gorgeous George" and Ali has said so many times.
    Ali was always tongue-in-cheek and I think he was hilarious. A lot of what he did was done with a wink, some of which people have taken all too seriously.

    When young Cassius Clay said "His corner is dirty, they put something on his gloves" you have to take it with a pinch of salt too.
    Maybe he believed it at the time ... but it was all part of the drama he created. Nothing could ever have a less dramatic explanation when young Cassius was in town.
     
    Legend X, Jul 22, 2012
    Legend X, Jul 22, 2012
    #34
  5. Pachilles

    Pachilles Boxing Addict Full Member

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    did you used to post as Unforgiven?
     
    Pachilles, Jul 22, 2012
    Pachilles, Jul 22, 2012
    #35
  6. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    The 'liniment', when applied to the 'eye', according to 'Dr. Jones Beaver Oil Liniment'
    would have burned for approximately 5 to 8 minutes.

    The pain would have caused the eyes to close almost completely, to clear out the
    oil solution, and severe redness would have developed within the eye area.

    After the bout, Cassius Clay had 'no redness' around the eye area.

    There would have been 'no blinking' involved, as per information from the Dr. Jones
    Company.

    The 'scam' was in the process..........
     
    Senor Pepe', Jul 22, 2012
    Senor Pepe', Jul 22, 2012
    #36
  7. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    Monsel's Solution

    Ferrous Sulfate, Sulfuric Acid, Nitric Acid

    Ferric Subsulfate Solution

    Formula = H2 Fe4 O2 S5

    Used to help stop bleeding, from cuts and abrasions.

    If the solution comes in contact with the eye, will cause immediate irritation, burning and redness.

    'Immediate"

    Immediately after the fight ended, Cassius Clay was dancing all over the ring. In the
    first close-up, approximately '8' minutes after the first indication that some solution
    was in Cassius Clay's eyes (end of the 4th Round), the New Champion was very
    'bright eyed and bushy tailed'.

    No redness, no irritation and no blinking.

    NO KIDDING !!!
     
    Senor Pepe', Aug 19, 2012
    Senor Pepe', Aug 19, 2012
    #37
  8. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    A new book to be released,,,,,,,,

    'The Fifth Round'

    An in-depth look at what 'really happened'.

    How 'T-N-T Network' with their single 'creepy peeper' hand-held camera directed
    ther cameraman when to go each fighter's corner, in a 'pre-scripted' way.

    At the end of -
    Round 1.........Cassius Clay
    Round 2.........Sonny Liston
    Round 3.........Sonny Liston
    Round 4.........Cassius Clay
    Round 5.........Cassius Clay
    Round 6.........Sonny Liston
     
    Senor Pepe', Sep 7, 2012
    Senor Pepe', Sep 7, 2012
    #38
  9. Andrei00

    Andrei00 Active Member Full Member

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    Any more details on the book and when is it going to be released?
     
    Andrei00, Sep 7, 2012
    Andrei00, Sep 7, 2012
    #39
  10. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    A closer look into Sonny Liston's corner ending Round 4, revealed
    nobody putting anything on Sonny's gloves before he came out for
    Round 5.

    A close-up view from another found angle, of another T-N-T camera,
    showed Trainer Joe Pollino working on a cut under Sonny's left eye, and
    applying applying vasoline. Nobody was soaking any left hand glove in
    'liniment'.

    Joe Pollino was on the right side of Sonny, and Liston was resting his left hand
    on his left knee for the entire time in the corner. It was 'never' touched.

    Nobody put anything on his left hand glove, like it was claimed.

    Also, an interview with Referee Barney Felix, who called the 'liniment'
    claim 'totally false', as he could see directly into Sonny's corner.
     
    Senor Pepe', Sep 7, 2012
    Senor Pepe', Sep 7, 2012
    #40
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Serious inquiry Pepe, are you by any chance related to Mendoza?

    You have the same obsessive hatred for a fighter he has.
     
    mcvey, Sep 7, 2012
    mcvey, Sep 7, 2012
    #41
  12. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    I like Sonny Boy,,,,,,
     
    Senor Pepe', Sep 7, 2012
    Senor Pepe', Sep 7, 2012
    #42
  13. BillB

    BillB Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I'd like to read that book.

    The liniment lie is the biggest thing that confirms that fight was fixed.

    Why did Clay go through that charade unless he was trying to establish "proof" that Liston was trying to win. Why did he think, at the time, he needed to do that?
     
    BillB, Sep 7, 2012
    BillB, Sep 7, 2012
    #43
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Pepe, I always thought you posted this **** to get a reaction , now I'm beginning to think you actually believe it!
    How sad are you??????
     
    mcvey, Sep 7, 2012
    mcvey, Sep 7, 2012
    #44
  15. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    McVey,,,,,,

    The 'ball' is in your court,,,,,,,,,

    Question #1

    Please explain,,,,,,,,,how does 'liniment' get in the Cassius eyes (both of them mind you),
    in the 4th Round,,,,,,, but does not kick in until he sits down,,,,,,,after the round.

    Unless, the last punch that Sonny landed in Round 4, had mysteriously attracted
    liniment on the glove, from exactly where.......

    Not once in Round 4, did Cassius go to his eyes with his gloves to wipe them clean.

    If you put 'liniment' in your eye, it will burn immediately.

    The ball is in your court,,,,,,,,,,,I will wait for a return volley.
     
    Senor Pepe', Sep 7, 2012
    Senor Pepe', Sep 7, 2012
    #45
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