If George Foreman had never existed...

ali gets him more than likely, dont see norton beating him imo, shavers and lyle have a punchers chance, and young might show up in shape but i think ali.

 

As Champ, Frazier sweeps Ali in all 3 fights ...and starts Ali's decline much earlier.

 

I think that Frazier would have been much better prepared for a rematch with Ali, than a fight with some non entity called George Foreman.

Plus as champion, he dictates the terms of the fight.

Frazier winning the rematch is always on the cards.

 

I think Ali has a better chance at it than Shavers or Lyle (obviously), but I think Frazier would have always declined in about as much time as really happened. He just wasn't destined for a long career or a long reign.

Patterson was doing well late in his career, and despite what the cards say, he beat Ellis. He also beat other very credible fighters around this time too. I think Patterson aged better and fought at a higher level than Frazier at similar stages, but I could be wrong. Just thinking as I'm typing.


I do think it would be one of those 4. All are capable of beating him, but all could be beaten by him...

 

Frazier becomes a bit of a flash in the pan, beats Ali buts loses in competitive fashion twice. It's not like Foreman ruined him, Frazier just wasn't as good as people like to think

 

This.

Outside of Foreman, I don't think there was anybody who could have taken the title away from Joe.

 

If not Foreman, then Shavers gets him. Otherwise Ali.

 

The same Shavers Jerry Quarry TKO'd in 1 round?

 

I agree, provided Joe stayed active and focused. Had he rematched Ali earlier, I believe time would have been more on Joe's side, along with the psychological advantages of being champion and still undefeated. I believe the two years of relative inactivity following the FOTC worked against him. Outside of Foreman, I think Ali had the best chance of dethroning him, but as noted above, I believe Joe would have prevailed. Then, given the physical style of Frazier, seeing him hold the title until Holmes seems too much of a stretch. Had Joe swept Ali, I believe he would have emulated Marciano and retired as undefeated champion.

 

Twenty years later, Michael Moorer defends the title a couple times against Frans Botha types and then gets blitzed by a comebacking Tyson.

 

We wouldn't have

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Ali would have beaten Frazier in a rematch. It would have been similar to their real second fight,only difference being it would have been fifteen rounds. In 1973,I can't see any other fighter around,except for Muhammad,that would have beaten Joe. My rationale is that even if Foreman had n't existed,the Fight of the Century still took more out of Frazier than it did Ali.

After this,Ali may well have lost the title to Ken Norton,regained it from Ken,and had a rubber match with Frazier. Things would have panned out roughly the same as far as Muhammad and Joe were concerned.

 

Maybe Moorer's rematch with Holyfield occurs in late 1994.

 

Can't see Norton,Shavers,Lyle or Young beating Frazier up to,and including,1975. After '75,they'd all have a good chance. Frazier shot after Manilla. In this thread's scenario,it would probably pan out the same,as the third fight with Ali would more than likely still go ahead.