Debate over. Andre Ward is the greatest SMW ever, well clear of Calzaghe.

Wouldn't you say a key to Joe's longevity was his limited opposition?

Outside of Kessler, who had an injured hand, he went the last 5+ years without a prime challenge.

 

:yep

Out of interest, how do you see the best version of Calzaghe (from the Lacy fight) against the Ward and Dawson who fought the other night?

 

JC isnt in the ATG ranks. He is in the HOF ranks, if thats what you mean - he holds the record for SMW defences.

 

aha.

Cal has the edge over Dawson at SMW but it likely goes to the cards by SD. Dawson has gone down in my estimation a little since the weekend. AT LHW Dawson has the edge.

Ward has the edge over Cal to the cards again, SD or more likely UD, too much skill. This is SMW only.

In Wales with Welsh ref Cal has better chance. Obviously Cal would never accept either fight anyway, in order to protect his record. But if we just pretend that we are dealing with an alternative Universe Joe who was braver, then neither fight is going to be easy, they'd be devilish work for both fighters concerned.

 

What?

You could argue he never had the management to do what Ward has done in such a short amount of time but be real who that Ward has beat Calzaghe wouldn't have?

 

I see, Calzaghe would stop the weight drained Dawson who showed up on Saturday night, no question

Ward-Calzaghe would be damn close to be fair! I could see Joe's superior stamina in the championship rounds being the difference in a close fight, even Froch was wearing Ward down and winning rounds at the end, Calzaghe would win more rounds throughout and tire Ward quicker, Calzaghe by close decision for me, though in a few more fights time I might have to reconsider that, Ward looks to be getting better and better

But then Ward wouldn't go to Wales, and Joe wouldn't go to Oakland!

 

well, Ward HAS beaten them, Calzaghe MIGHT have beaten them is all that you can safely say.

och, Cal was wbo-rthless title holder and was happy with that for a decade. He could have gone a number of ways to try to get more titles, up to LH, or the other organisations, but he didnt. It wasnt all about Ottke highjacking two titles in Germany or lack of management. If you are a champ, doors open for you, its a question of whether you want to go through them, and when.

 

true only when Ward turned 40 would he get miraculously cured of his fear of flying.
Ward, we are yet to see if he will start touring.

I cant see workrate being enough to beat Ward. Throwing extra punches wont help you if they arent landing, unless you got a welsh ref behind you.

 

Yeah, I think so. I don't think Calzaghe was good enough to beat a good quality of opposition for a long time and remain undefeated.

For me, Ward has two very good wins - Froch and Kessler. The Dawson win is tainted because he was weight drained, Abraham was not an elite fighter at 168, Bika is just tough and awkward, Miranda was past his prime and Green isn't up to much. I think those last 5 wins are pretty similar to Calzaghe's wins over Eubank, Bika, Lacy and Reid. Whereas Ward has Froch and Kessler as his standouts, Calzaghe has Hopkins and Kessler. To me, there's not a lot of difference in quality and what separates them is longevity. If Ward can remain undefeated, even against lesser opposition than he's faced, he'll surpass Calzaghe. That's quite a big "if" though.

 

Joe was a bit better than that. His jab was good and he had a very good left cross. He'd hold his own against Ward at all ranges, and he has the handspeed advantage. Ultimately, Froch despite losing clearly was able to wear Ward down and finished stronger. Calzaghe would certainly finish stronger and win rounds throughout, it's all guesses and opinions

 

It's remarkable how fickle some people are on ESB. A guy has a couple of good wins and people want to elevate them to greatness. If Ward got knocked out in his next fight, he wouldn't be close to Calzaghe. That's how flimsy his standing is.

 

Like you do with Haye calling him an ATG after beating Enzo.

Ward shits all over Joe with years of career left.

 

Joe had good skill with that cross and his movement and awkward angles lifting that skill too, but dont mistake that for great skill. He was matched and at times outboxed in the Reid fight, who was one of the most skilled prime fighters Joe faced. Ward will definitely outskill Joe, and Joe wont land often enough to compensate by throwing three times as many punches late on when 80% of them are missing - that effectively negates his workrate advantage, albeit its enough to beat a gasping grandad or a lesser boxer.

Not ignoring the handspeed Joe had, but it was a handspeed of a different kind to, say, a real speed merchant like RJJ. Joe's handspeed was different, coming at the price of accuracy, a windmilling flapping speed that missed far more than it hit. In Joe's case, it was a sign of desperation when he had no more tricks to pull but could bank on his fitness to keep flapping.