Should Dawson drop John Scully?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Ripple633, Sep 9, 2012.


  1. Ripple633

    Ripple633 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    There would be no point in dropping Scully, because Dawson already has a reputation of firing trainers. If he fires Scully, no one is going to step in to be his trainer.

    I praise Steward and Floyd Sr not because I think they are the best trainers in the world, because they are clearly not, but they were the right trainers for Dawson, and he fired them over petty reasons.

    He fired Stewerd after one fight, after one ****ing fight! Steward had a strategy and gameplan ready for Hopkins. Steward even brought in Ronnie Shields to co-train with him. Steward said that Dawson showed mistakes that he needed to fix. There is no doubt in mind had Dawson stayed with Steward he would have beaten Hopkins in the first fight convincingly. As a matter fact once Chad fired Steward he went back to his old bad habits which was ducking really low to avoid punches. I mean Dawson is 6'3, why is he ducking low?

    What ended the fight against Hopkins in the first match was Dawson ducking really low to avoid a right hand. Once he went back up, he lifted Hopkins and pushed him off. That would have not happened under Steward.
     
  2. m8te

    m8te Oh you ain't know? Full Member

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    dawson's problem is his mind frame as a fight progresses. he has all the talent and skill in the world but simply cannot seem to let his hands go. that being said, john scully isn't known as a top shelf trainer, and maybe an elite coach can bring out the animal in chad, because there's a number of fights where chad needed to unleash his arsenal and simply did not choose to do so.
     
  3. Ripple633

    Ripple633 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He had an elite trainer, it was Floyd Sr and Dawson looked like a beast under him. And Chad fired Floyd Sr because Sr wouldn't allow his girlfriends to watch him train, and other petty reasons.

    He had another elite trainer in Steward, he fired Steward because he didn't like the way Steward was training him, despite the fact that he made Dawson fight disciplined.

    He fired the best trainers over petty reasons, so at the end of the day it's all on Chad.
     
  4. m8te

    m8te Oh you ain't know? Full Member

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    I heard that he fired steward because of his desire to train near his family in CT, while steward preferred michigan...

    not necessarily a petty reason, more an issue of commitment.
     
  5. MrOliverKlozoff

    MrOliverKlozoff The guy in shades Full Member

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    Dawson lost to the second most intelligent champion in the sport. You might as well ask John to break into Ward's hotel room and give him a lobotomy the night before the fight.
     
  6. Ripple633

    Ripple633 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ward is not unbeatable, if the fight was at 175, if Dawson actually used more foot-movement and used his height and reach better, it would have been more competitive. But Scully's strategy was to catch Ward coming in, can you believe that? He wanted Chad to fight Ward in the pocket.

    If you watch Dawson's performance against Hopkins, Chad had no chance against Ward. Dawson showed too many mistakes against Hopkins, and Scully wasn't going to fix his mistakes. Scully was not going to make Chad fight disciplined. Scully wanted Chad to establish the jab, how the **** can Chad establish the jab if he's not using foot movement to create distance?
     
  7. IceJohnScully

    IceJohnScully Active Member Full Member

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    Yeah, I remember doing that fight. A lot of people thought Ray won it but I didnt see that at all...I actually think that was one of the better fights I called. Ray was in it the whole way, tooth and nail, always dangerous, but as I recall Lennox' jab was controlling things
     
  8. IceJohnScully

    IceJohnScully Active Member Full Member

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    Ad for the record, with all due respect, I see many "opinions" on here stated as facts about Chad as to why he fired this guy and that guy, what he was thinking, etc...and the fact is that all you know is what you read from articles and press releases. As in every single case like this, there is a lot of behind the scenes info that you are not having access to. I know why he is not training with Steward and Mayweather Sr. before and it is definitely not for the reasons stated on here by some of you.
     
  9. IceJohnScully

    IceJohnScully Active Member Full Member

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    Ripple, with all due respect, part of making a game plan for a fight and part of changing a game plan in mid stream is based on the fighter and what he is capable of at that moment, what he is feeling at that time. Sometimes you have to read between the lines here, my man. In any event, from reading your post here, I dont think you have any idea what I "wanted" Chad to do. You have to tell your guy what to do based on his mental and physical capabilities at the moment you are telling him. Thats why you spend weeks witht he guy before the fight, thats why you are with him in the days and moments leading up to the fight, so you know where he stands mentally and physically. There's a lot I obviously cannot tell you here but it's clear that you dont realize that there is no obvious cookie cutter plan for each fight, you have to adjust sometimes based on the moment and the person.
     
  10. PityTheFool

    PityTheFool Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Pay no mind to the armchair experts John.We're only on here giving opinions although some people seem to blur the line between opinion and facts far too much.
    Bottom line is most of us reckon you did as well as anyone could have done in the circumstances and as I said,the way you tried to inspire Chad at the end of the eighth will stay with me for a long time.
    But we're only posting on forums and you're training world champions.
     
  11. IceJohnScully

    IceJohnScully Active Member Full Member

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    You know...when I did that (told Chad he had to win by KO, he was losing, no way he could win, etc)...I actually dont understand why more trainers dont do that! I mean, in fights where you guy is probably losing by at least a couple rounds, going into the 12th round of it, and you see guys giving such technical advice...its just so clear to me that the technical advice as the main thing goes out the window. His instincts and his natural affinity for throwing proper punches, keeping his hands up, etc., will remain in tact...but the bottom line is, no matter how well we do here ur not going to WIN unless its by KO. Chad was physically and mentally not in a position to carry out specific instructions, I had to try and tap into his emotions and heart and see if we could come up with something that way. Ward was too sharp for an impaired boxer (weight loss) to outsmart him at that time...
     
  12. PityTheFool

    PityTheFool Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It seems so simply logical,yet as you say it almost never happens.That's why it was so refreshing.
    Was the way Chad performed in the 2nd round more the gameplan you had in mind Ice? One of the most obvious signs of Chad not being right for me was that he seemed to be falling into the most basic anti-southpaw traps,slow jabbing which allowed Ward to slip and come back with right hooks.
    We didn't get the corners during the early rounds over here but I imagined you were fuming although we all have an idea why Chad wasn't responding now.
     
  13. IceJohnScully

    IceJohnScully Active Member Full Member

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    The thing is, over the first two rounds I was happy..they were feeling out rounds, yes, but things were unfolding well enough. What happened was, honestly, after the first knockdown I dont think Chad ever recovered, he was fighting on heart and instincts, because what happens is, when you are losing weight like that the brain doesnt have as much fluid protecting it anymore and when you take punches they affect you much deeper than normal. Its tough to think and process instructions...it really is a crazy thing to experience...
     
  14. Ripple633

    Ripple633 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'm referring to if they rematch at 175 (and most likely they will, unless Dawson is no longer LHW champion). Dawson is at his best when he establishes jab and uses lateral movement (see Adamek fight).
     
  15. PityTheFool

    PityTheFool Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It seems like no one's asking but how's he doing at the moment? Is he OK?