Green vs Tarver 2....on twitter

Those who bag the use of vitamins DO NOT understand the need for increased micro nutrients in our diet, particularly in westerners due to our carcnogenic society. Its not cheating, it also does not mean one has bad nutrition. Those with impecable diets use vitamins and supplements as they understand the need for them, athletes in particular.

 

You're very quick to accuse me of looking up information on Creatine on google when it's plainly obvious that's exactly what you've done.

See this post of yours in which you state Creatine cannot be found in food...

...followed by a post in which you contradict yourself by stating that it can be found in foods...

I conducted extensive research into Creatine when it first hit the Australian market some 15-16 years ago. I know what I'm talking about and don't need to rush off to google or youtube to learn about it like you do.

If you read my post again you will see I stated it does increase strength.

Again with the google research accusations - it's obvious from your lack of knowledge and make-it-up-as-you-go-along method that you have no idea on this matter.

lol.

 

loooolz at The Grub posting articles to prove he knows everything about Creatine

Do you understand what 'anecdotal' means?

Nowhere in the 2 articles you've quoted does it state there is unequivocal scientific evidence that taking Creatine provides benefits

 

yes BRUA you know all and the AIS dont know sht, you better write them letters and tell them you have ALL the answers for their athletes hahahaha! I stated way before you put ya grubby nose into this that the AIS had done research, now because ive posted an article published by the AIS i suddenly got it from google?

And creatine cant be found in food that will give you any benifit, the levels are to farkn low, do you understand that? If i said black was black you would argue that its white just so you feel important and have someones head you can butt your own against.

Get a life you moron, and stop pretending you know WTF your talking about.

If you clicked the link you would have realised it was ONE article split into two posts as there is a max amount you can post per post on the forums. It was NOT two articles nuffy! quickly run off to google now and search for bullsht that dont exist lol

 

http://www.ausport.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/456997/B-Alanine_Website_Summary_Table.pdf

Summary of studies of B-Alanine and sports performance

Of course according to sox these people MUST be paid by the guys making the supps lol , fact is neither sox or Brua know WTF they are talking about.

 

What are you on about you drama queen?

You posted that creatine doesn't occur naturally in food then you posted that it does occur naturally in meat. Make up your mind and stop trying to deflect and make it sound like you know what you're talking about.

Also, why do you keep trying to change the subject to B-Alanine? I don't give a damn about that or any other supplement you've recently read about on google otherwise I would have mentioned them. On that matter however, I do have this to say - you mentioned you have a mate who owns a supplement shop as if that's some sort of credible source on whether or not supplements are good for you. Gee, someone who sells supplements for a living must be so impartial on the subject don't you think?

Back on topic - I'm talking specifically about Creatine - either you have a hard time staying on subject or you're trying to deflect away from the subject because you know nothing about it and can only quote articles other people have written.

Next I'll quote the same article you think backs you up and highlight all the parts that own you.

You ready The Grub?

lol.

 

AIS WEBSITE FACT SHEET – AIS SPORTS SUPPLEMENT PROGRAM
Creatine
Supplement Overview

Muscle creatine content varies between individuals,

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related to gender, age or fibre type. Vegetarians do not consume a dietary source of creatine and are reliant on body synthesis of creatine; studies have shown that vegetarians have lower residual muscle creatine concentrations than meat-eaters (Burke et al. 2003).

Phosphorylated creatine provides a number of important functions related to fuel supply in the muscle. The most well known role is as a source of phosphate to regenerate ATP. The phosphocreatine system is the most important fuel source for sprints or bouts of high-intensity exercise lasting up to 10 seconds.

In 1991, studies initiated by Professor Roger Harris showed that muscle creatine and phosphocreatine content could be increased by ~20% by dietary creatine supplementation up to a to a threshold of ~150-160 mmol/kg of dry weight muscle. High dietary intakes temporarily suppress endogenous creatine production.

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Individuals with the lowest initial levels, such as vegetarians,

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show the greatest responses, while individuals with resting creatine content near to the muscle threshold

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show additional enhancements. Although initial studies showed that a significant proportion (30%) of individuals

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, this appears to be overcome by strategies that enhance creatine uptake into the muscle such as simultaneous intake with a carbohydrate-rich meal or snack.

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the performance of exercise involving repeated sprints or bouts of high intensity exercise, separated by short recovery intervals. Therefore, competition or training programs involving intermittent high-intensity work patterns with brief recovery periods (<1 min), or resistance training programs

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by creatine loading. Performance enhancements

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be seen as a result of an acute loading protocol, but chronic creatine use to promote superior training adaptations

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offer the greatest benefits.
Studies have shown that prior creatine loading enhances glycogen storage and carbohydrate loading in a trained muscle. The performance implications of this finding

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.

Although there is a robust literature supporting the benefits of creatine supplementation on exercise capacity/performance,

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There is also a robust literature supporting the therapeutic uses of creatine supplementation with applications for a number of disorders including muscular dystrophy, polymyositis, ageing, Parkinson’s disease and Huntingdon’s disease.
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Creatine supplementation also appears to increase creatine concentrations in the brain. This

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have some functional benefits to enhance cognitive function in situations of impaired brain function such as sleep deprivation, ageing and brain hypoxia due to stroke. Further studies on this application of creatine supplementation are required with sports situations including treatment of concussion. There is preliminary evidence (Benton et al. 2011) that creatine supplementation by vegetarians is associated with increased cognitive function while this effect is not seen in meat-eaters. This is

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because resting brain creatine concentrations of vegetarians are lower due to the lack of a dietary creatine source.

Products and protocols
The most well-researched dietary creatine supplement is creatine monohydrate, with a number of protocols of loading being established:
o Rapid loading may be achieved by 5 days of repeated doses (e.g., four x 5 g doses) of creatine (Hultman et al. 1996).
o Slow loading will occur over a longer period (28 days) with a daily dose of 3 g (Hultman et al. 1996).
o Maintenance dose of 3 g/d will allow elevated levels to be sustained (Preen et al. 2003).
o Unloading: Once the muscle creatine content has been saturated it will take at least 4 weeks to return to resting levels.
Consuming creatine doses with a substantial (50-100 g) amount of carbohydrate (Green et al. 1996) enhances creatine uptake and storage into the muscle. Taking creatine doses with a carbohydrate-rich meal or snack

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help all individuals to respond to creatine supplementation and reach the muscle creatine storage threshold.

A weight gain of 600-1000 g is typically associated with acute loading and

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It is possible that any weight changes associated with slow loading are masked by normal body mass fluctuations or the outcomes of longer term training and diet interventions.

Creatine monohydrate is the common source of creatine in commercially available supplements and the experience of 20 years of research and use of this product according to established protocols

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that it is safe and effective. A number of other forms of creatine have been included in newer supplements with claims of being a superior creatine course; these include creatine serums, creatine malate and creatine ethyl esters. The efficacy, safety, and regulatory status of most of these newer forms of creatine found in dietary supplements

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. Additionally, there is little to no evidence supporting marketing claims that these alternative creatine sources are more stable, digested faster, more effective in increasing muscle creatine levels and achieving performance outcomes or associated with fewer side effects (Jager et al. 2011).

 

Situations for Use in Sport
There is robust evidence that creatine supplementation

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enhance the performance of exercise involving repeated sprints or bouts of high-intensity exercise, separated by short recovery periods. Enhancement of competition performance

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as a result of an acute loading protocol but also through chronic use to promote superior training adaptations. These situations include:
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o A developed athlete undertaking resistance training to increase lean body mass.
o Interval and sprint training sessions where the athlete is required to repeat short explosive maximal efforts with brief recovery intervals.
o Sports with intermittent work patterns (e.g. soccer, basketball, football, racquet sports).

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Concerns Associated with Supplement Use
Many athletes who use creatine either are unaware of correct supplementation protocols or persist in using unnecessarily high doses of creatine. Studies show that high doses of creatine do not further enhance creatine stores.

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may be counterproductive to athletes competing in sports where power-to-weight is a key factor in successful performance or in sports involving weight divisions.

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although there is now a 20 year history of creatine supplement use with few reports of adverse outcomes. There are anecdotal reports of an increased risk of muscle cramps, strains and tears, but studies to date have not reported an increased risk of these events. In fact, several studies show a reduced prevalence of muscle cramps and tears and enhanced thermoregulation during prolonged exercise in the heat in creatine users compared to a group receiving a placebo treatment. Creatine use in the evidence-based protocols outlined above

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to cause changes to kidney function in otherwise healthy people.

Some individuals experience mild side-effects from creatine supplements in the form of gastrointestinal discomfort or an increased prevalence of headaches.

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(Harris et al. 200.

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I own two supplement companies, you are right and wrong here.
Regarding the nutritional content in food, absolutely correct. There has never been any kind of benefits shown from the use of synthetic vitamins/minerals, if someone's diet is sufficient.

It is a common myth that fruit and vegetables these days are somehow deficient, as much as organic freaks like to claim superior benefits, again there has never been a proven advantage to organic foods in terms of vitamins/minerals, obviously lack of pesticides and other chemicals is a different matter.
Many people likely do get benefits from them as they have crappy diets, by filling holes they have an advantage, however it is an extremely lazy, and expensive approach, when they could just east better.

Regarding supplements though.

There are plenty of supplements, Creatine, Beta Alanine, Citrulline Malate, Carnitine ( as examples) which have proved time and time again in double blind clinical studies to aid performance - generally in regards to strength/muscle size and muscular endurance.

I agree that the "hype" marketed for such products - or at least the concoctions that companies blend is way out of line to the actual benefits gained. Rather than 600% muscle growth we are talking 10 - 12%, minor increases in performance, nothing ridiculous as often claimed.

If you aren't convinced - use pubmed.com this is a world wide database of published data, type in some of the terms I have mentioned and you can review the data for yourself.

I totally agree that while the market is generally full of ****, there are some legitimate benefits to be had.

 

Read the entire thread moron and you wont pwn yourself so hard next time lol

Creatine along with other supps are benifical to athletes. Have you been living in a cave for the past decade or something BruaGirl?

 

There you go little fella - see if you can find any hard evidence in your 2-part article that states with recorded scientific research that Creatine supplement provides benefits and has no longterm side effects.

 

Guys, the Institute of Sport is by no means an authority on supplements so quotes from there are a little odd.

They take a very conservative approach to all things supplements, this occurs for many reasons, no doubt a large reason is inadvertant doping in the past from supplements - generally U.S made products with different scheduling.

If anyone is truly interested in proper research just look at pubmed.com
type in these terms and read for yourself.
There are studies done on sedentary people, aged, young people, athletes, all walks of life.

Ignore any unprofessional studies, just focus on peer reviewed double blind crossover studies, which are as legit as you can possibly get.

The reason why the industry gets such a bad name is due to the outrageous claims being completely out of kilter with the actual benefits.
It's irrefutable that certain compounds are beneficial, however while most supp companies will tell you the gains are massive - obviously with a focus on sales, the reality is that they are relatively minor, albeit significant when 1/10th of a second or lifting a few kg more can mean a masssive difference in the context.

 

"perhaps"
"has been shown"
"may"


"lol"

 

Why are you quoting Sox but addressing me?

He has his opinion, I have mine. They aren't the same.

 

Q.What do you call alternative medicine that works?

A.Medicine.
:desk