When i think of this fight it's hard for me to say who would win because i can't imagine either of them loosing to the other. I feel Haglers great chin would prevent a knockout but could SRR outbox Hagler because Hagler was a great boxer too, and in SRR trying to outbox Hagler would Hagler be able to score a knockout over SRR then?
to be fair, robinson had a comparable chin to hagler. there's no knockout happening either way in this one. in the end, i think robinson had a better ability to kick it into another gear when he needed to. hagler, despite some exceptions, usually operated in a steady and consistent gear...progressing gradually throughout the fight. that cost him the leonard fight. i see a rough battle the first third of the fight, with robinson's greater movement winning him rounds as hagler comes on. marvin steals some rounds in by the mid-point, switch hitting and rocking sugar ray with hard right hooks. as he begins to narrow the gap a bit, robinson digs deep and starts fighting hagler hard on the inside with a vicious body attack. he works behind the jab and blisters hagler with combinations to the head and body. hagler tries to counter robinson and work him over but robinson's movement prevents it. hagler begins to break through a bit by the 12th but robinson's superior jab keeps the distance he wants and he's leading going into the 15th round, as both men go all out. there are no knockdowns but its a vicious 3 minutes, at the end of which robinson's hand is raised for a close but clear UD victory
good matchup that i've really never thought about before. prime for prime i'll take hagler. he'd be just a little too big for robinson but i think this would be a very close fight.
Of course P4P Robinson was greater than Hagler...Too much is made of the fact that Hagler had a "better" chin than Robinson. Hagler had but 67 bouts in his career and never kod....Hmmm, Robinson had 202 fights in his amazing career and aside from the tko "loss " to 175 pound Joey Maxim due mostly to heat exhaustion, RObby was NEVER kod !!! Does anyone think that a past prime Hagler could have gone against the best MWs, 132 more bouts til Hagler reached the age of 45 without suffering a few kos on his record ? Hell no...One other thing...Hagler , nor any other MW could have ABSORBED the fusilade of punches that Jake LaMotta took from Robinson and remained on his feet as LaMotta did, including Hagler... If Robinson and Hagler fought each other as MWs,same age, it is Sugar Ray for me...And I am not sure a Hagler beats the motivated Jake LaMotta of the Cerdan fight in 1949...Easily Jake was as tough as Marvin was. Rocky Graziano didn't call La Motta " hammerhead " for nothing...
Great fight. Robby by points after 15 competitive rds against Hagler... Hagler has his moments, due to his greatness and skill, but Robby is the man at 160........ I'm speaking of '51 Ray vs. '81 Hagler....... SRR is my man. MR.BILL
BUT! Hagler is my top 160 pounder of all-time since he was champ during my high school yrs..... MR.BILL
Hagler was at his best when his opponents came to him. When he was the aggressor against boxers like Leonard and Duran, much of his effectiveness seemed lost and he seemed ordinary. Much of Hagler's effectiveness was due to his accurate counterpunching against fighters who came to him. If Robinson boxed Hagler, Hagler would be a step behind all night long. If he slugged with him, it would be a much harder night but i still think SRR would come out on top.
(i thought that) u know he was KOd by Artie Levine . And it was in Smith's prime And LaMotta was rightfully stopped by Smith Jr. or otherwise he was on his way 2 being KOd .
First of all ff,I do know about the Artie Levine / Robinson bout in 1946 because Artie Levine was a neighbor of mine and he DID weigh 10 pounds more than Robby...Levine though not a great fighter could hit like a mule.. And if you studied boxing history more ff, you would understand that the reason that Robinson "stopped" LaMotta in 1951 after FIVE previous close bouts was because Jake was about 13 pounds over the weight before the bout and had to lose that 13 or so pounds before the bout...I recall the rumors about this weight loss and Robinson's corner knew this and Ray bided his time knowing that the bull would be weakened in a later round, so Robby opened up after the 11th round, and in the 13th round hit the weakened LaMotta with every punch he had and STILL LaMotta remained on his feet til the ref stopped it...Even in this weakened condition [13 lb loss] LaMotta took blows from the peerless Robinson that would most likely put Hagler in LaLa land,even without Marvin losing all that weight...I repeat the MW LaMotta that could take the pulverizing right hand crosses of LH Bob Satterfield, and then ko Satterfield,was certainly as tough as Hagler was ... For danged sure...
Ya know Robison vs Levine was like a 150 pounder vs a super middleweight. Robinson beat the count, then was most definitely given a BS standing 8 to 11 count. Illegal as hell no doubt about it. He then proceeded to tear Levine apart. Prime SRR beats Hagler on adaptability. Art Rust jr always spoke about SRRs rarest of the rare abilities to KO people while retreating. Hagler ranks poorly on adaptability. All he can do is walk forward into this hell. Robinson is never given credit for being a welterweight fighting so many killer middleweights, A great way to get a welterweight ruined. Ask kid Paret
Laurent Boudouani also had d ability 2 KO opponents whilst retreating and unlike WSJ , he did not need a humongous height advantage over them , just4u2know and WSJ was a huge welterweight whom grew in2 a big middleweight , no doubt a more durable Thomas Hearns in his era . And also , regarding d stupid "welterweight fighting middleweights" remark , tell about it 2 those whom object d modern intermedi8 divisions , not 2 me . WSJ outgrew 147 and since there was no 154 he naturally moved up 2 fight handpicked opponents @ 160 . No Eddie Booker , Charles Burley , etc. 4 Mr. Smith . And like Bert just st8ed , as tough as LaMotta was , he was dehydr8ed vs Smith , b sure that Smith's management knew about it . WSJ was d taller man in all of his fights except against Giuseppe Bernardinelli in which he got stopped , usually d taller man by far . Go ahead and tell d kids that height means nothing in "boxing"
By the final battle SRR and Lamotta were both past it. Thats another Art Rust jr observation worth mentioning. If Jake were dehydrated he has only his unprofessional conduct to blame. Jake was never denied a draw or a victory in any prior battle vs Robby Thats another boxing myth that doesnt pan out.
100% true... As a youngster I was impressed by an old boxing writer who once said of Stanley Ketchel, " whoever saw Stanley Ketchel fight forever after could see no other fighter " ! After seeing Ray Robinson with my dad, in his prime as a welterweight,and against Randy Turpin, " I too, can see no other fighter than Robby "... By a strange cooincidence, Artie Levine was the bigger fighter that kod Jimmy Doyle ,putting Jimmy Doyle in the SAME hospital that he was sent to after Ray Robinson fatally kod Doyle in the ring in 1947, in Cleveland,Ohio. And the terrible beating Benny Kid Paret absorbed by the bigger Gene Fullmer, contributed to Paret's death after the Emile Griffith ko... P.S. this is why I am amazed by my man the astounding Harry Greb who tackled more than 100 oponents much larger than he in a 300 bout career without being kod as a main eventer...Imagine in ONE year Harry Greb had 45 bouts, and WON them ALL...
Both two of the most potent H2H competitors ever, but Robinson had a styles advantage here; He could do at a very high level the exact things that always gave Hagler hell. Robinson, tight but clear decision.