Liston vs Ali - Primes

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BillB, Sep 30, 2012.

  1. BillB

    BillB Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Whether you think the Liston- Clay/Ali fights were rigged or legit, I think we'll all agree that was not a prime Liston. Neither was it a prime Ali- he had a couple of years to go.

    How would a 1959-1960 Liston have fared against a prime Ali?

    Prime Ali could be the 1967 version or the Ali who beat Foreman. Opinions vary. Take your choice.

    I would pick Liston, but I might be wrong. I wouldn't bet on it either way.
     
    BillB, Sep 30, 2012
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  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Well a Prime Liston quit on his stool in a losing effort to a pre-prime Ali so i'd say he loses even more convincingly to a prime Ali.
     
    lufcrazy, Sep 30, 2012
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  3. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    The Scenario

    Sonny Liston (1959/1960 version) vs. Cassius Clay (1966/1967 version)

    A 'brutal' clubbing brute {vs.} a 'swift' moving stylist with lightning quick hands.

    I don't think Sonny would have caught Cassius to land anything hard, but his
    left jab may have been the 'neutralizing agent'.

    Very close 15-Round Decision, = 145-144 {6-5-4 in Rounds} for Sonny Liston.
     
    Senor Pepe', Sep 30, 2012
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  4. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

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    The Liston that quit on his stool was hardly "prime Liston".
     
    red cobra, Sep 30, 2012
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  5. bladerunner

    bladerunner El Intocable Full Member

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    Liston would always lose to Ali bad styles matchup for Liston.
     
    bladerunner, Sep 30, 2012
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  6. groove

    groove Well-Known Member Full Member

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    after 2 destructions of patterson everyone said liston was prime when he fought clay. ali's speed and movement was always too much for liston.
     
    groove, Sep 30, 2012
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  7. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Based on what? His two career best performances in the immediately preceding bouts?
     
    lufcrazy, Sep 30, 2012
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  8. Mr Butt

    Mr Butt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ali
     
    Mr Butt, Sep 30, 2012
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  9. Andrei00

    Andrei00 Active Member Full Member

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    Based on the fact that he was 37 years old according to some sources, maybe?

    However, I've seen Cleveland Williams vs Liston I, and he didn't look impressive at all. So even if I'm not a big fan of Clay/Ali, I still think he would beat a prime version of Sonny.
     
    Andrei00, Sep 30, 2012
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  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    And according to some sources he was 31. According to the census he was 34 and he was certainly in the form of his life.

    I think would beat a prime Liston mainly because he did beat a prime Liston.
     
    lufcrazy, Sep 30, 2012
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  11. ThinBlack

    ThinBlack Boxing Addict banned

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    Ali prime would take Liston Prime on a good decision.
     
    ThinBlack, Sep 30, 2012
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  12. RockyJim

    RockyJim Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Sonny had the jab...the power...the pre-fight glare...but he wasn't mentally tough...Ali gets in his head...and stays there...if you're not mentally tough...then throw the jab...power...etc...out the window...
     
    RockyJim, Sep 30, 2012
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  13. Andrei00

    Andrei00 Active Member Full Member

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    I haven't spent much time studying Liston and his history, but he looked older than 31 years old. However, I find it hard to believe he was still prime in '64/'65, even if he was just 31 or 34 years old, just like I find it hard to believe those fights were 'clean'. But, like I said, I still think Clay/Ali would beat probably every version of Liston.
     
    Andrei00, Sep 30, 2012
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  14. Abdullah

    Abdullah Boxing Junkie banned

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    Ali
     
    Abdullah, Sep 30, 2012
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  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    It's much more probable he was 34 than any other age. The Census is the best source we have.

    I find it hard to believe he was anything other than prime considering his form going into the fight.
     
    lufcrazy, Sep 30, 2012
    #15