Post your all time top 10 Super Middleweights

What specific years are you talking about?

Roy Snr held Roy back, and they had a huge row, and Roy hired Stan and Fred Levin, and they got him a HBO contract in 92. Roy didn't really come into the spotlight until he'd beaten Hopkins in 93. He made a few defences at 160, and then shot to fame in 1994 when he beat Toney. When that happened, he was HBO's golden boy. So why would he have needed to fight any fighter in England? Who should he have fought?

Also, James Toney was waiting to fight the winner of Benn vs Eubank II. But after the draw, negotiations broke down. Benn was happy to fight in the States, but Eubank has admitted that he didn't chase the big fights.

Chisora and Haye was a big domestic fight, but it did nothing on a global scale. It's got nothing to do with attendences anyway. It's the promotion, and the networks, and the PPV that sell the fight. In 2007, Calzaghe fought Kessler in front of 50,000 people in Cardiff. But outside of Europe, it wasn't a big deal. In the same year, Mayweather and De la Hoya fought in front of just 17,000 fans, but they broke all previous records for the gross amount.

Nobody was interested in Roy's 2008 fight with Calzaghe, because Roy was finished.

And nobody would have been interested in a fight between them in 2002 either, because at the time, Joe was relatively unknown outside of Europe. There was no global demand for the fight. The U.S. fans had only seen Joe a handful of times.

Regards, Loudon.

 

Ha!

Who offered Roy 5 million?

It was Joe who wouldn't fight Roy unless he got the Crown Jewels. It was Joe who never fought in America. It was Joe who never went upto 175.

Joe was a no name in the U.S. in 2002.

There was no call for the fight.

So how could Frank W have paid Roy 5 million, and how could he have given Joe the millions that he wanted also.

It wasn't viable.

The only way that fight could of been made, is if Joe had've moved up earlier, and fought in the U.S. and impressed. Then they might have been some interest. Joe didn't put himself on the map unitl he beat Lacy, 4 years later, in 2006.

Regards, Loudon.

 

That's a good point, and I admit I may be wrong but i feel that he had sufficient skill to maybe get to Roy. It would be a good scrap though

 

Wheres Frankie Liles? Nunn? How on earth are you going to have Benn and Eubank over Jones?

 

You realize you just said that America is the only important country in regards to boxing, being able to pack out a football stadium means your well supported and tend to get well paid as well you know.

 

Toney wanted to come over, but Benn and Eubank were not interested. That's the reason he called them both out on the Jonathon Ross show.

 

They could never have put the money up. Because nobody outside of the U.K. would have been interested in the fight in 2002.

If the fight was going to take place, it would had to have been in the States, but like I say, there was no call for it.

The fight wasn't viable for a number of reasons.

Do you think that the worlds best fighter in 2002, who was the unified 175 champ, would be interested in fighting Joe who fought at 168 and held the WBO belt?

What would Roy have gained? Nobody back home would have watched the fight. Yes here in England, they could have filled a big football stadium, but overall, it wouldn't have been a big event on a global basis.

The other problem, was Joe's pay.

Even if he'd have been willing to fight in America at Roy's weight (which he wasn't) how much do you think HBO would have been willing to pay him at the time? It would have been around $800,000 because again, it'd have been hard for them to sell the fight to fans, because Joe wasn't known.

Now we know from Joe's comments, that he'd never have fought Roy for a small amount like that. So the fight was never viable.

Roy ended up fighting John Ruiz for $17M the following year.

Regards, Loudon.

 

Yep, I respect your opinion. The first four or 5 rounds would of been dangerous for Roy, but if he could get past that point (which I think he would have) I think it'd have been a late stoppage.

Regards, Loudon.

 

Hi moneypaysbills, good post mate

Out of curiosity, what is your list? And who do you think would win between Calzaghe and Nigel Benn? I think Benn could hurt Calzaghe, who had a leaky defence, but could the dark destroyer put him away? Or is Calzaghe smart enough to survive and win a decision?

 

Ward will probably one day be no. 2 if he stayed at SMW but consensus is he will probably move on up to LHW.

I personally believe that if it was a prime Calzaghe who had more power then he let on, then he would be able to keep benn off him and maybe win a decision or late stoppage. However, Calzaghe wasn't impervious to damage so there's always the chance that Benn could win.

Always great to see fine posters such as yourself on ESB Knockout Artist. And I look forward to what i assume will be a fantastic, well balanced list from yourself

 

That's a good point. I didn't say that America is the only country, but America has all the power. All the elite fighters in the World (bar the odd exception like the K Bros) all either fight or are based in the U.S.

GPB and Top Rank have the best fighters. HBO and Showtime show the fights, and the rich Casino's host them.

There's a huge difference between gate reciepts, and PPV money.

America has got some of the biggest stadiums in the World, but the biggest fights are held in Vegas casino's in front of around 17,000 fans.

I'll go back to my previous example. Calzaghe fought Kessler in front of 50,000. But outside of Europe, that fight wasn't a huge event at the time.

Meanwhile in the same year, Oscar fought Floyd at the MGM in front of 17,000. They didn't need to host it at a 120,000 capacity stadium, because it grossed over a $120m in PPV.

 

Hi mate, excellent list and great response thanks

My list would go

1. Calzaghe
2. Ward
3. Eubank
4. Benn
5. Jones
6. Kessler
7. Ottke
8. Froch
9. Toney
10. Liles

I abhor steroids cheating, and salute you on highlighting proven cheats like Toney and Jones, that too affects my ranking.

I would already rank him at number 2, the fact that he's undefeated against the opposition he's faced is very impressive. Though I think Saint George Groves is a strong up and comer who will rule the division when he reaches his prime. If Ward stays at SMW, he'll have to face a young, hungry Groves and that wouldn't be a good idea for Ward. Therefore I do see him moving up to the weaker LHW division, though a rematch with Dawson at 175 could be a real challenge.

Benn was a fearless warrior from Essex, he'd be a nightmare for any SMW! Calzaghe could be hit, but he had an iron chin and great recovery powers, therefore if Benn knocks him out, it has to be early. If Calzaghe can weather the storm, then he'll take a decision, young Calzaghe could hit hard but Benn's chin wasn't as bad as gets made out.

Another fight I would have liked to see was Jones-McClellan, I think Jones would have outpointed him in a great fight

Superb post mate, always a pleasure :good

 

Great list from a top poster

:good:good:good

I agree that once George Groves is fully blooded through we will see people demanding Ward leaves Oakland and does whatever it takes to make the fight happen even if he is currently serving at 175.

Keep it coming

:thumbsup

 

Cheers pal :good

George Groves looks a real talent, and that would be a bad fight for Ward. I could see Saint George landing a pull back counter down the pipe and hurting Ward, which would lead to Groves winning though I could be wrong.

If he's at 175, then he won't have to come back down to face Groves, LHW is a weak division and I don't see Ward having any trouble there. Look at how Dawson is a nobody at 168, yet he's the number 1 LHW

Hope everything's well mate

 

Calzaghe.

No doubt.