Sugar Ray Robinson

He was VERY hittable.

SRR would have a very intresting fight with a peak 147lb ODLH. Oscar wouldn't win, but he'd be perfect to expose the flaws in Robinson's game.

Knockout Artist beat me to this, but Ray's jab could be bettered. The base to build from, were you to fight Robinson would be to double your jab and move towards his right hand. Keep your hands high and not punch WITH him.

 

His jab could be countered with concerning ease, had a tendency to throw wide shots and could be caught off balance. He avoided being hit even further thanks to some pretty spectacular athleticism, speed (foot) and reflexes, particularly for his era against his contemporaries. I actually view him as a 'Puncher-Boxer' D) and not the opposite, meaning I consider his power to be his greatest asset over his boxing skills. Not a spectacular boxer with power, but a puncher with some boxing skill. I do think he had the greatest combination of Power, Speed and Chin ever though.

 

You're alright you are :yep

 

It's actually quite difficult to really assess how fights with the likes of SRL, Hearns, ODLH, et al. would go because in the fights we see him in, he's tackling good fighters with leather faces and granite chins, but they're also plodders whom he's easily able to dictate pace against with his movement, circling the ring shooting his jab out and picking his spots to launch his offensive assaults. Not so easily done against the aforementioned who were a lot more refined, quicker, far less open and had some of the better jabs ever. I still think he could work Hearns over and stop him with an assertive and persistent body attack to take his legs (he'll have to take quite a lot in return) but he's certainly not going to outbox him. SRL is interesting because the only time Robinson faced someone who could match his speed was against Kid Gavilan, but they chose not to film those. :verysad

 

I consider SRL the greatest H2H WW ever. Also I think Hopkins beats Robinson at MW.

I think you're spot on. I can't judge how Robinson would deal with subtle craft. I'd love to see him in two fights consecutively, the first against Tito Trinidad, and the second against DLH.

 

Important point to bear in mind with Robinson is that there is very little footage of prime welterweight Robinson. Most of what we have to go in is the heavier, slightly faded middleweight version. It's a reasonable assumption that the lighter peak Robinson wasn't quite as hittable as the one who went toe to toe with Basilio.

 

The Servo fights would be interesting to see, as from the accounts he seemed to trouble Robinson, and he doesn't fit the usual mould of the physically strong pressure fighter who SRR sometimes struggled with.

It's difficult to work out what would be the worst style match-up for Robinson. As great as Gavilan was, SRR was probably just slightly better in all areas. Despite the perception that granite-chinned pressure fighters were difficult for him, he managed to stop two of the best in middleweight history in LaMotta and Fullmer.

I think Hearns-Robinson would be similar to Hearns-Leonard. Robinson was every bit as tough and obstinate as Leonard, and was a significantly harder hitter.

I think Griffith and prime Armstrong could be a difficult match-ups for Robinson.

 

It's tough. SRL was pretty mint and thorough. I think it's come out that we both believe he actually had the better very best wins to prove his mettle and nobody else agreed with us . I do rate Gavilan particularly high though, and Armstrong wasn't nearly as close to 'shot' as he's made out considering he was the #1 rated Welter at the time and had run through several contenders just prior.

Yeah, though the very first reason that comes to mind for me is Size.

:deal

 

His defense, though not porous by any means, wasn't air tight. He sometimes had a tendency to give up height and reach advantages in order to engage fighters in the trenches. And slick, slippery boxers who used lots of footwork (Dykes, Servo) or relied on unconventional angles (Gavilan, Turpin) gave him trouble, too. Robinson beat those fighters, but not without having to work very hard to achieve those victories.

 

What a travesty the SRR/Gavilan fights weren't filmed. They literally were going to from what I understand, then just decided, 'Nah'. atsch But yeah, I don't think anybody is accusing SRR of having Danny Lopez level defense.

 

Size would be simplifying it. Hopkins is the perfect guy to beat Robinson IMO.

I'm not allowed in the classic forum very often. :smoke

Though I need to give Flea man the battering he deserves...

 

Yea yea, I know. I just care not to think about it. :bart Robinson is my No. 3 favorite fighter of all-time (though they shuffle a bit) but at least I'm objective, right? :yep

Hopkins isn't a Top 100 middleweight in the Classic Section.

 

My biggest disagreement with Classical posters, isn't the rose tinted glasses. It's the failure to admit that Certain fighters from this era are technically proficent enough to Box with the masters of the past.

They are. :twisted:


(You're very objective, but we're yet to strongly disagree on something, so time will tell...)

 

got outjabbed by lamotta

 

Nothing yet, though I have the greatest fear that even somebody of your experience and keen eye somehow underrates the the subtle and very economical brilliance of my boy Roberto Duran in terms of his application of skill for how he applied pressure and was really hit (flush) significantly less than people like to assume due to his come-forward, aggressive nature. I don't know why this would be, but I feel it. :-(