How much did toneys heavyweight stint help his legacy?

It wasn't really blowing up. He was 200 lbs in high school as a QB on his football team. The fact that he could even make 160 was amazing.

 

I am not disagreeing with you, but I feel that the first Ramhan fight for the WBC belt could really have sealed his legacy, and I just felt that he let it slip between his fingers.

 

other than condition I was pretty impressed, I thought he could have snatched the 1st one with Peter...He had Rahman ready to go....and his stop over Evander Holyfield was a classic for the 5"9 Toney...for me it added to his credentials and remember he also was past 30 as well

 

Lennox Lewis literally did everything the Kbros did by himself. In fact you can argue Lewis was more impressive in his manners and his lack of criminal activities because he grew up in a much tougher enivroment as compare to the Klits and still managed to turn out to be a gentleman.

Don't mistake K2's lack of English speaking abilities for them being 'classy'. The only reason they weren't talking trash during their stint on HBO was because they had issues stringing together coherent sentences.

In the German culture which they have been banished to(by HBO) trash talking DO NOT sell, hence they don't trash talk. If trash talking sold in Germany, they won't have shut up.


Once again don't mistake classy with 'living within the structures of their current culture'

 

hell no

Thadzi outworked and beat the sh*t out of Toney, and I'm a huge Toney fan

Toney had a bad night, he probably trained 4 hours for that fight :yep

 

if he could have kept his weight around 215 lbs, he would have had a much easier time with all of his HW foes

at 226-230, his balance was sh*t and so was his stamina

with that said, Toney is an ATG, an old school throwback fighter, and his HW run added a lot to his legacy

I just wish he would retire now, when Lebedev beats yo ass, you have abused of your sell by date

 

180 he said in that hbo interview.

 

what? but according to al bernstein, he said that freddie roach said he passed out twice trying to make weight for that fight.

 

So keeping composed when an obnoxious **** like Derek Chisora spits water in your face or slaps you and then not pulverising him was all a front for their marketing was it?

Or was it that they are above stooping to the level of goose's like Chisora or Haye?

My money's on the latter because,image concious or not, most any highly trained aggressive fighter type wouldn't be able to control themselves in the face of the provocation the Brothers faced from Chisora and to a lesser extent Haye.

Plus Lewis gentlemanly or not still engaged in pre-fight brawls with Tyson and Rahman so his street upbringing was still never far from the surface if you were dumb enough to provoke him.

 

never heard about it, maybe

to be honest, before I watched the Thadzi fight, I had always thought there was no way Toney had lost to a journeyman like that at 175 lbs (he didn't make weight actually didn't he?) and that it had to be a robbery, so I was shocked when I watch it

Toney definitely lost, probably because he killed himself to make weight, but yeah he got beat up

 

Vitali always tested clean as a professional. And he was an active professional. I think that is what matters Power Puncher, and nothing you can say or do will change that. Many athletes in the amateurs or pro’s take the same type of stuff a doctor gave to Vitali to heal an injury as an amatuer. It was one of 100+ banned substances in the Olympics, and not even the beneficial type of steroids.


The first Peter vs. Toney fight could have gone either way. The ref was favorable to Toney in that fight on the breaks and quickly docked Peter a point. However, Peter clearly won the second fight. If you combine the 24 rounds, Peter most certainly got the best of James Toney.


Now if you want to get hypocritical, show me your top 20 heavyweight list, and I’ll show you guys who WERE busted for steroids as PROFESSIONALS. Come one, show me where you rate Holyfield and Tyson. Of coruse as a heavy Toney was busted for juice. Hence his legacy here is not much. He could not even get past Peter.

 

Holyfield and Morrison are 2 steroids users who always tested clean as a pro too. The pro tests are ridiculously easy to beat. Vitali tested positive for steroids in the amateurs. Are we to believe he'd take steroids in the amateurs when no money is at stake. Vitali gained 40lbs of solid muscle in what 3-4 years yet he wasn't on gear?

Again pure hypocrisy and double standards on your part, but what else is new? I don't have an issue with fighters using PEDs hence I aren't the hypocrite you are

 

In my opinion and as stated above, it was a money issue. Toney would've done it for a lot of money and Klitschko wasn't going to give a big purse for a fat former MW who probably would've make him look bad for a good portion of the fight. I don't blame any of them. Toney had some better and more competitive fights to do, same for Wlad.

 

His stint at HW solidified him as an ATG.
Im not really buying the whole steroids crap. The steroids wouldnt have helped him take a better punch or roll and slip any better. Whatever the judging I consider him to have legitimate HW victories over
Holyfield
Ruiz
Ocquendo
Rahman
and he should have won the peter fight but lost due to his laziness.

I do beleive the Klicthkos avoided him back in 2004-2006 back when he could fight at HW.

The truth tho is that between the Jones Jnr loss and Griffin and Thadzi debacles until he beat Jirov. He pretty much wasted 6-7 years of his career in no mans land. Thats the real loss as by the time he decided to make a real push at HW he was already 35.

 

But the steroids would allow him to bulk up and gain physical strength, which could only help him in a heavyweight fight. Without the steroids, he'd have the same skills, but he'd lack the extra physical strength and durability to hand in with the big guys. Therefore, his success at heavyweight cannot be accurately assessed.