I love JMM, but what has he done to merit being top 5 P4P?

Marquez deserves the spot. Considering his performance against Pac, he should be ranked close to wherever you rank Pac.

 

Floyd (too inactive) / Pac (after beating Bradley, he moved ahead of Marquez)
Marquez
Ward
Donaire
Martinez

 

Floyd
Ward
Martinez
Marquez
Donaire
Pacquaio

 

I really would have loved for JMM to do more than chase Pac all these years. He has a great counter style for Pac, but I too am skeptical about his PFP ratings without more variety of top level opposition.

 

I think JMM gets overrated due to his fights with Pac. Giving 1 great fighter a tough time doesn't necesarily mean you are on the same level. Its the same as how Norton beat Ali, doesn mean Norton is up there with SRR, SRL, Armstrong, Louis etc...it means he has Ali's number.

Lets look at this carefully, JMM lost to Norwood near his prime, had a very close fight with a shot Barrera who Pac outclassed completely, went life and death with Juan Diaz they had to rematch, had a very tough fight with Katsidis, completely outclassed by Mayweather.

To make a comparison, Pac destroyed MAB and would destroy Juan Diaz and Katsidis. Someone like Cotto or Judah put up a MUCH better fight against Floyd too.

Basically JMM performs great against Pac and just Pac, when faced with another great fighter not Pac in his prime like Floyd, he's outclassed or when faced with mediocre guys like a past it MAB, Juan Diaz or Katsidis, he looks very ordinary.

JMM is top 5 my favourite fighters, I absolutely love his style and I thought he won his last fight with Pac by a point. Just callin it as I see it, outside of Pac he hasn't really done anything spectacular.

 

This logic is flawed IMO.

If some bum gets a lucky shot in on Floyd and gets a KO win, would you instantly rate him the best fighter pound for pound or even #2 or #3? Anything can happen in boxing on any given night. There is a difference between beating one of the best and BEING one of the best. Naseem Rahman didn't suddenly become a better fighter than Lennox just because of one K.O. Nor did Buster Douglas become better than Tyson. Or Lamon Brewster become better PfP than Wladimir. They won a championship belt and became a champion. Pound for pound ranking is a whole other animal.

Even if you prove you can hang with one top guy or even counter his style and beat him, it doesn't mean you MUST be rated as high P4P. You need to prove your P4P ability against a variety of competition and styles. At least in my book.

 

We're not talking of any bum here, we're talking about JMM. He has accomplished a lot more aside from beating Pac unofficially.

 

But aside from beating Pac unofficially what else has he done recently? Go life and death with Juan Diaz? Life and death with katsidis? Boring fight with Fedchenko? Outclassed by FMJ? Controversial win over past it MAB?

This is what I mean, compare that to other fighters like Donaire, Floyd, Ward and I think JMM falls behind them. Even in the case of Pac, say he lost a close decision to JMM which I thought he did, he still beat Bradley a top 10 p4p, beat the **** out of Margo who was 20lbs heavier than him, shutdown Clottey and Mosley, nearly killed Hatton, shocked the world with ODLH and destroyed a game Cotto.

Which is why even if you think JMM beat Pac, Pac is still higher. Also given the fact that I think their 1-1-1(pac-JMM).

For the record I think JMM is top 5 at mo, falls behind Pac, FMJ, Ward and Donaire. He rates above Martinez cos I fail to see how Martinez is top 5...nearly got knocked out by what he himself would call a C level fighter in Chavez Jnr.

 

Nothing compared to what the other guys in the top 5 p4p have accomplished IMO.

Here is the test: Remove any 1 opponent from the resumes of each top P4P guy. Is the resume still AMAZING and deserving of high P4P status? If not, then that person hasn't earned that spot yet.

 

Floyd
JMM
Donaire
Pac
Martinez
Bradley
Wlad
Ward

 

:-(

 

A couple of things have to be taken in to consideration when it comes to this opposition though.

Marquez beat Pacquiao just recently.
Marquez is fighting above his natural weight.
Marquez is very old for the lower weights.
It's not a great level of opposition, but there aren't many boxers who have racked up a great level of opposition, consistently. Emphasis on great.

Not saying he should be ranked above these boxers, but to say there isn't an argument and that his opposition doesn't match the P4P bests is not right IMO. Not everyone can run through the weight classes like a Mayweather or Pacquiao. Marquez has taken his time, he has also rushed, which put him back a step. But he has finally reached a level that puts him in place for a fourth bout with Pacquiao.

A boxer who is naturally in the same weight class as a Katsidis, or a Diaz, etc...this is not a great win, well, you can't expect to be pushing up the P4P ranks with them. But a Marquez who is old, and moving up, pulling off stoppage victories, are very good wins...and is exactly what the P4P ranks are all about.

Anyway, off out. :good

 

Yikes.

 

Pac SHOULD be below Marquez.