Donaire vs Ward vs Martinez P4P

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by megavolt, Oct 20, 2012.


Page 1 of 4
  1. megavolt

    megavolt Constantly Shadowboxing Full Member

    13,622
    34
    Dec 25, 2009
    I made a thread on this a while back but ESB isnt letting me use the search function.

    I'm going to make direct comparisons between these fighters on why I have them ranked in specific spots P4P.

    Weight-crossing (championship level):

    Donaire- Flyweight to Super Bantam

    Martinez- Light Middle to Middleweight

    Ward- Super Middle



    P4P level wins:

    Donaire- TKO2 Montiel (P4P #8 at the time)
    Notes: Montiel coming off big win in Hasegawa, Donaire entering with only 1 tuneup fight at the weight

    Martinez- KO2 Williams (P4P #5)
    Notes: Both fighters moving up in weight class, Williams 2 divisions but had more time to become accustomed to the weight

    Ward- TKO10 Dawson (P4P #10)
    Notes: Dawson coming off big win over Hopkins, bout fought at Ward's native weight 168



    Different weight divisions each fighter visited at the world level and the top fighter they fought there (omitting the fighter in question in rankings)-

    Donaire
    Flyweight: Darchinyan consensus #1
    Bantam: Montiel consensus #1
    SuperBantam: Nishioka consensus #1, arguably #2

    Martinez
    Light Middle: Cintron #4
    Middle: Pavlik consensus #1

    Ward
    Super Middle: Kessler consensus #1



    Signature defenses when they were on top of a division:

    Donaire
    TKO6 Mthalane

    Martinez
    UD12 Chavez Jr or Macklin

    Ward
    UD12 Carl Froch consensus #2



    Most explosive entrances into a foreign division:

    Donaire:
    Bantamweight: TKO4 Sydorenko (rank 3) followed by TKO 2 Montiel (rank 1, P4P #8 )

    Martinez:
    Middleweight: MD loss to Williams followed by UD12 Pavlik (rank 1 lineal) and KO2 in Williams rematch

    Ward:
    N/A


    Longest String of Defenses:
    Donaire: Flyweight 3

    Martinez: Middleweight....1? WBC :rofl but really its 5

    Ward: Super Middleweight 5
     
    megavolt, Oct 20, 2012
    megavolt, Oct 20, 2012
    #1
  2. Nonito Smoak

    Nonito Smoak Ioka>Lomo, sorry my dudes Full Member

    53,088
    6,686
    Sep 8, 2010
    2. Ward
    3. Donaire
    6. Sergio

    Any arrangement of these three is fine with me, but it is those who rank any of the three outside the top 6 who irk me (maybe 7 w/ Wlad, maybe).
     
    Nonito Smoak, Oct 20, 2012
    Nonito Smoak, Oct 20, 2012
    #2
  3. SouthpawJab

    SouthpawJab On his way up!! 4-0!! Full Member

    8,781
    20
    May 26, 2011
    Bradley has a better resume than either, and people put him at the bottom of the top 10.
     
    SouthpawJab, Oct 20, 2012
    SouthpawJab, Oct 20, 2012
    #3
  4. Doc

    Doc Obsessed with Boxing banned

    17,915
    1
    Nov 14, 2009
    Donaire>Martinez>ward
     
    Doc, Oct 20, 2012
    Doc, Oct 20, 2012
    #4
  5. Hatesrats

    Hatesrats "I'm NOT Suprised..." Full Member

    60,376
    241
    Sep 28, 2007
    Ward
    Martinez
    Donaire
     
    Hatesrats, Oct 20, 2012
    Hatesrats, Oct 20, 2012
    #5
  6. megavolt

    megavolt Constantly Shadowboxing Full Member

    13,622
    34
    Dec 25, 2009
    feel free to post your reasonings
     
    megavolt, Oct 20, 2012
    megavolt, Oct 20, 2012
    #6
  7. megavolt

    megavolt Constantly Shadowboxing Full Member

    13,622
    34
    Dec 25, 2009
    I put Bradley at #5 or 6 actually
     
    megavolt, Oct 20, 2012
    megavolt, Oct 20, 2012
    #7
  8. Nonito Smoak

    Nonito Smoak Ioka>Lomo, sorry my dudes Full Member

    53,088
    6,686
    Sep 8, 2010
    Oh come on man! You're so specific with P4P ranks and where so and so was ranked at the time but you somehow manage to mess up badly here!

    -Geale was for sure the consensus next best MW.
    -Many people still had Sturm as right below Geale, ahead of Chavez Jr.
    -A small number of people had Golovkin ahead of Chavez Jr.

    Rather than "N/A" for Donaire, you could just list his best case of one. It would be Moruti Mthalane, who he beat when he was top dog of 112. Mthalane would go on to pick up quite a few quality victories and is now the respectable IBF champ at 112, undefeated since the Donaire loss in '08.
     
    Nonito Smoak, Oct 20, 2012
    Nonito Smoak, Oct 20, 2012
    #8
  9. Faerun

    Faerun Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,858
    4
    Nov 7, 2009
    Ward is a lock #2 for me, not sure with Donaire and Martinez. I like Donaire's wins over Darchinyan and Montiel although I do feel a little underwhelmed by most of his recent opponents. Also, Donaire tends to enter the ring significantly bigger than virtually any of his opponents.

    Martinez's wins over Williams, Pavlik, Cintron and CCJr are similarly excellent and I tend to like his resume a tad better.

    Ward's resume at this point is that of a first ballot HoFer and that of a soon-to-become ATG.
     
    Faerun, Oct 20, 2012
    Faerun, Oct 20, 2012
    #9
  10. purephase

    purephase Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,740
    89
    Jan 14, 2011
    Weight-crossing alone should not be overvalued in this context since it's easier to do at the lower divisions. I hate the idea that a guy staying in his division and cleaning it out is somehow less impressive than picking up easy or vacant trinkets across divisions. I'm not accusing Donaire of this, I just think it's silly to punish a guy by default for not jumping divisions.
     
    purephase, Oct 20, 2012
    purephase, Oct 20, 2012
    #10
  11. Nonito Smoak

    Nonito Smoak Ioka>Lomo, sorry my dudes Full Member

    53,088
    6,686
    Sep 8, 2010
    I think Donaire is most often ranked below these guys, which I find to be hypocritical when he has gone through 112, 115, 118, and 122, the undisputed (or "consensus") king of all but 115.

    Sergio has two divisions under his belt, but at 154 his best performances are the Cintron win/draw and... Saul Roman or Alex Bunema? While the Cintron win affirmed his abilities, let us not act like Sergio has any semblance of anything close to an even "very good" run at 154.
     
    Nonito Smoak, Oct 20, 2012
    Nonito Smoak, Oct 20, 2012
    #11
  12. PIPO23

    PIPO23 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    28,909
    6,255
    May 18, 2006
    Ward
    Martinez
    Donaire
     
    PIPO23, Oct 20, 2012
    PIPO23, Oct 20, 2012
    #12
  13. GTWOSIX

    GTWOSIX Active Member Full Member

    1,072
    0
    Dec 10, 2010
    Marquez, Pac, Martinez, Donaire, Mayweather, Ward in that order,
     
    GTWOSIX, Oct 20, 2012
    GTWOSIX, Oct 20, 2012
    #13
  14. Chempasillo

    Chempasillo Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,431
    1
    Feb 5, 2011
    same size, same weight, ward beats both because he would putstink, outbore them and win by boring fights. martinez > donaire...therefore

    ward
    martinez
    donaire
     
    Chempasillo, Oct 20, 2012
    Chempasillo, Oct 20, 2012
    #14
  15. megavolt

    megavolt Constantly Shadowboxing Full Member

    13,622
    34
    Dec 25, 2009
    Nice one, didn't catch that.

    As for Sergio, I was iffy selecting between the Macklin and the Chavez Jr win, I'll just take off the ranking part next to it
     
    megavolt, Oct 20, 2012
    megavolt, Oct 20, 2012
    #15
Page 1 of 4