If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Just you bailey:
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?p=14031974#post14031974

 

How were any of the wins above, at 168 pounds, going to get him a fight with the worlds best fighter at 175 pounds, for the crown jewels that he wanted???

Answer the question?

Beating Reid, Starie and Jiminez etc at home at 168, wasn't going to land Roy for huge money.

Nobody was going to pay Joe the huge money he wanted, because for the millionth time, outside of Europe he was relatively unknown, to the casual PPV fans.

You have no argument!

How stupid are you?

We know Otis had a lesser pedigree. You are correct.

HOWEVER, AS MENTIONED

Grant was happy to fight for under a million dollars, at 175, and in America.

Joe wasn't willing to do any of those things!

Grant would have been offered somewhere in the region of $700,000

Joe wasn't offered anything.

Do you know why?

Because he was defending his Micky Mouse 168 belt at home, and when asked about a potential fight, stated that he'd have to be paid the crown jewels.

Also Grant fought Roy in 1998, and the following year, Joe said "I'm not chasing Roy, be honest he's a good fighter, and I don't want tough fights."

The problem for you is, Joe was always talking about what he was going to do, and what he wanted to do, but he never followed any of it though.

He agreed to fight at 175 if the Roy fight was there?

How could the fight be there, when he wanted the crown jewels, and no promoter or network was going to give it to him??

Roy didn't agree and then backed out, it was just one option of three that he explored.

His options were Tarver, Ruiz and Joe.

He went with Ruiz.

I suppose that was a duck?

Ha! Complete nonsense!

What about in 2004, when he told everyone he wanted a new challenge, and he was happy to go to America at 175.

It took him another 4 years to get there!

Did he and Enzo hire a pedalo from Cardigan Bay?

I don't have to know the exact amount, and neither do you.

Because we both know that Grant would have got less than $1 million, and we both know that when Joe stated he wanted the crown jewels, we know he was talking about an awful lot of money.

You're comparing the abilities of Grant and Joe, which is completeley irrelevant.

Roy didn't say he didn't want to know. He said in 2008 while promoting their fight, that Joe had wanted to fight him for a while.

According to Joe, it was 6 or 7 years, which is complete and utter bull****, and I proved it with the timeline, that I'll happily type out again, that you CANNOT DISPUTE!

If you want me to type it again, I will, and everyone can give their opinion on it.

I've seen Joe's youtube videos a hundred times.

He was chasing him for two years?

Well we know in 1999 that he wasn't, and then what? He had a change of heart?

And what did he do to get Roy in the ring?

Tell everyone.

He admits he knows who he his?

It was his job to know who he was.

He wasn't interested in fighting him, because he was trying to unify the 175 division, that Joe wasn't part of, and then he went upto heavy.

Like I keep saying, Roy at the time, dismissed him. But you read that and come to the conclusion that Roy was scared of him, and avoided him Ha!

Joe Calzaghe, a 168 WBO title holder from Wales, who nobody knew, was irrelevant to Roy Jones.

It's not a duck you idiot!

****ing hilarious!

We know he was lying!

Haha! Says Joe, who wanted the crown jewels in 2002, when nobody outside of Europe knew who he was! Oh the irony.

You've posted a video of Joe after beating McIntyre, and???

He wanted the big fights against Roy etc, AND THEN...

He fights Brewer, Jiminez, and Sugar Ray Pudwell in Newcastle and Manchester! Ha!

I bet Roy and Coach Merk were watching back home, panicking?

 

You're that stupid, you're missing the point entirely.

Frazier wasn't in the same league as Joe, and it was a joke, that he found himself as a mandatory challenger.

Of course Joe had done more etc.

But the point is, Frazier was made mandatory at 175.

IF Joe had moved upto 175, he too could have found himself in the position of Frazier and Woods. Although it probably wouldn't have made much of a difference, because he'd have never have accepted whatever the offer would have been anyway. We both know why.

Haha! Do you really think he was that willing, when he didn't end up there until he was 36, in 2008? Really?

Proof of what?

Joe lying though his teeth, pretending to be interested, despite asking for ridiculous money, and not fighting in America, or at Roy's weight class?

Does not one tiny part of your brain, realise that he was just being polite, as their fight was coming up, what Roy was desperate for?

Did you expect Roy to slag him, and say he was a nobody and was irrelevant? Roy's quote below, is politely stating what I've just mentioned.

A rough inpolite translation of this would be, Joe was a nobody in the World of Boxing, when I got Murad to get the Ruiz fight signed.

Ha! I've seen you quote The Rings ratings when arguing a point.

Also, on another thread, you disputed the fact that they didn't rate it, when I first mentioned it to you.

Times have changed a little, since Joe won his belt from Eubank in 1997.

But the point is, Joe clung onto that belt, like a drowning man at sea, clinging onto his life raft, when at the time, nobody thought anything of it, and defending it against the guys he fought, was never going to open the door to a big money fight.

Barrera and Morales are global stars in boxing. Hardly anyone knew who Joe was outside of Europe, when he was defending his belt until 2006, which was 9 years after he'd won it.

Why would he have?

Very good, apart from we all know that he didn't dismiss Benn, Eubank and DM.

I'm sick of typing these responses.

King wanted a three fight option for Benn.

Everyone apart from you, knows that Eubank never chased the big fights.

DM refused to go to America!

Yes he ducked Collins, but not out of fear of losing.

HBO didn't want the fight, he'd been inactive, he didn't have a belt, he didn't bring any money, and he wasn't a mandatory challenger.

He was ducked, to instead fight Reggie Johnson, to unify the titles.

Erdie, Tiozzo, Maske?

We all know that Roy never fought and beat any guys, that were as good as these three don't we? atsch

I can do this all day long.

You are fighting a battle that you can't win.

Regards, Loudon.

 

Loudon being pwned again part 3

 

Joe was a nobody in a different weight class.

But he wanted the crown jewels right? Who was going to pay him them?

Answer the question.

It doesn't matter that Hopkins had no wins at 175, people wanted to see their rematch, but Hop priced himself out, and you agree, because it was discussed about three weeks ago, and it's one of the only things that we've both agreed on.

Yes Roy fought Grant, who had done nothing at 175, but he was happy to go up, and fight in America etc.

We're going around in circles here.

You can't say Joe desperately wanted the fight, when he didn't fight in America til 2008.

You also can't believe he was serious, when he didn't fight at 175, til 2008, and he was wanting the crown jewels, when he'd done nothing on the world stage, and he was unknown. Yes we know Roy knew him, but not the average American fans, who buy PPV.

The names I picked out were just examples.

Let's look at all of the above, and I'll ask the same question.

How could any of the above wins, get him a shot at Roy, for the HUGE money that he wanted???

As above.

We've been through this a hundred times.
We don't know the exact amount, but what would you class as wantng the crown jewels?

I think it's safe to assume that it was for a good few million.

Do you not agree?

As above.

We know he wouldn't have been happy with a figure of around $800,000, the figure that guys like Woods were getting.

Otis was probably more known in America than what Joe was, in the late 90's. But that's not the point is it?

Frazier and Woods may not have been as known. But what's your point?

They were mandatories at 175.

Joe fought at 168, and didn't move up until 2008.

How do your links pawn me?

Again we're going around in circles.

Calzaghe was not happy to fight at 175!

Because he wanted the crown jewels. And when nobody wanted to pay him, he told reporters, he was desperate for the fight, but they wouldn't pay him.

It was just an excuse to save face.

The fact that he didn't move up until 2008, tells anyone with a brain, just how serious he was, when he claimed he'd be happy to move up.

Actions speak louder than words.

I have my opinion, and you have yours.

But the cold hard facts are

Joe didn't fight at Roy's weight or his Country, until 2008.

Which means, he didn't chase him at all!

Are you a ****ing ******?

It's nothing to do with being more worthy, you idiot!

Otis was happy to fight Roy.

In America, at 175, and for a under a million dollars.

Despite what you claim, Joe was not happy to do any of the above.

Because if he had've been, HE'D HAVE DONE IT!!

 

Part 2.

There's nothing wrong with wanting millions of dollars to fight Roy, but if you're unknown outside of Europe and no casual American fans know anything about you, then you can't realistically expect to get what you want.

It's as simple as that. I've agreed with you before, that I'd have wanted millions to fight him, if I'd have been in his shoes, but again, I'm not an idiot, and Joe was been unrealistic.

Joe had to know that in 2002, nobody was going to pay him ridiculous money.

So he had three choices.

1. Move up to 175, move up the rankings, and if the opportunity presented itself, take whatever offer was on the table.

2. Go to the States and raise his profile, and get people talking about him,

or

3. Move on and forget about him.

Once again, he asked for the crown jewels, when it was totally unrealistic, because he wasn't known globally.

You don't need to be quoted an exact figure Bailey.

Use your brain. Joe wanted a **** load of money, that he was never going to get.

What's my source? My source is, history, and what happened. I know what he did, and didn't do.

He called out Roy after McIntyre and then did nothing!

He wanted Roy, but then STAYED AT 168, to fight Pudwell (yes a replacement for Tate) Brewer and Jiminez.

So taking that into account Bailey, how SERIOUS do you think he was, when he said what he did?

I can tell you that I'm desperate to fight Floyd Mayweather. It doesn't mean ****!

What he said he wanted, and what he ACTUALLY DID, are millions of miles apart from each other.

He had a good career, but that's not the point I was referring too.

My point was, he never followed anything through.

In 2004, he was talking about wanting big money fights at 175 in America.

He didn't do either til 2008.

I'm not answering this again. What do you think the value was?

Tarver and Johnson would have been better fights in 2004/2005, than who he ended up fighting during that period.

We've been through this a hundred times.

We both know that it wasn't an off the cuff remark.

He meant it, and he believed it, and he was happy to tell people.

Comparing getting his age wrong by a year, and being adament that he chased Roy for 6 years? Ha! There's a world of difference, and you know it!

I have no arguement?

Let's put it to bed once and for all, and let's look at his bull****.

He turned pro in 1993.

He beat Eubank for the title in 97.

Did he chase Roy between those years?

Of course not, and it's a stupid question.

But he won the belt in 1997 yes?

Now in 1999 he said he wasn't chasing Roy. We've all seen the links a million times.

Now if he said that in 99, he didn't chase him in 98 did he? That's obvious.

In 2000, I don't think he chased him, but for arguments sake, I'll give you that year. Even though it's ridiculous because the previous year, he'd admitted he didn't want tough fights, and he turned down De Bella's offer of fighting in America.

In 2001, he called him out against McIntyre.

In 2002, he was an option for Roy.

Again, I don't think he was serious about fighting Roy, because I think he'd have done more to get the fight, but again, I'll give you 2001 and 2002.

Late 2002, Roy signed to fight Ruiz.

He fought Ruiz in March 2003, and then in Nov he fought Tarver.

That rules out 2003.

In 2004, Roy rematched Tarver, got knocked out, and then fought Johnson three months later, and got knocked out again.

That rules out 2004.

In 2007 he said "Fighting Roy at this point would be pointless, Roy was a great fighter, but now he's finished. He's not been the same since Tarver and Johnson knocked him out."

That rules out all of 2005,

all of 2006,

and all of 2007.

In 2008, Roy chased Joe.

There's your timeline.

It wasn't off the cuff.

He was telling people he was frustrated because HE'D CHASED ROY FOR 5 OR 6 YEARS!

It's complete bull****!

What have you got to say to that???

I've read the links and seen the videos.

That is not proof. Joe SAYING he wanted Roy is not proof.

The proof is in what he actually DID AND DIDN'T DO!

DM was calling him out in the Ring Mag?

Why did Jones not answer?

WHY DIDN'T DM GO TO THE STATES??

And then??

It doesn't matter what Jiminez had done. Fighting him in England wasn't going to get Roy's attention, at a higher weight, and it wasn't going to impress the American public, who'd have bought the PPV.

It makes no DIFFERENCE that Pudwell was a replacement for Tate, and both were better than Frazier.

Again it's irrelevant!

We're not comparing the bums Roy fought, to Brewer etc.

What I'm saying is, fighting Brewer, Tate, Jiminez etc at 168, wasn't going to get anybody interested in a potential fight with Roy. And it wasn't going to get Joe an opportunity to fight Roy for big money.

I'm sure Roy was terrified of Joe!

Well he was nearly 40, and Glen had knocked him cold, 4 years and 2 months earlier, so all irrelevant really.

The facts are, Joe wouldn't go near Roy, when Roy was on top.

But in 2008, 4 years after Glen and Tarver had knocked him out, and just a year after Joe himself had said, a fight would be pointless, he overcame his fear of flying, and fought him.

Amazing!

Please don't pawn me anymore! Ha!


Regards, Loudon.

 

why would roy jones be terrified of a volume fighter? he can take them apart when he is prime.

 

If you land in volume on his glass chin then you can knock him out. Calzaghe put down iron chinned eubank so could KO Roy. I doubt he'd be terrified of anyone but he prefers non-pressure fighters

 

Bailey,

I've just read through your response again, and it seems that we've got our wires crossed.

You're talking about Juan Carlos Giminez, who fought Benn and Eubank.

I'm talking about Miguel Angel Jiminez, who Joe fought, after McIntyre and Brewer in 2002.

Regards, Loudon.

 

He would never pay any of his opponents that much. 200k-300k would most likely be a more accurate figure

 

no ward would kill him

 

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A 1960's video camera?

:yep:yep:yep