If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Skittlez, Oct 6, 2012.


  1. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    To say Calzaghe was a victim of being in a bad era is wrong. He had the opportunity to persue manny big fights.

    As far back as 97 Sky commentator's , noted his opponents were a waste of time and were of no benifit. That trend would continue for another 7-8 years.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL0uqguzMKs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL0uqguzMKs[/ame]
     
  2. moneypaysbills

    moneypaysbills That's Mr moneypaysbills Full Member

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    If knockout artist's article is does not truly represent why Joe and Pavlik never fought. Then where is the interview with Pavlik saying he's tried to contact Joe for a fight around 2008. Even though Joe was an LHW then and Pavlik was a MW/SMW.

    If there is such an article/interview/video fair enough but i want to see it
     
  3. bernie4366

    bernie4366 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Calzaghe would have ducked Ward his entire career while he was still fighting, why the **** would he come out of retirement to take a fight he would never have taken while he was still active?
     
  4. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    there is no 'if'.

    The article refers to Calzaghe claiming that Pavlik ducked him. There is absolutely no reference to Pavlik saying it himself.

    I can claim anything I want on this forum, if I am not going to back it up. I claim that Calzaghe turned me down for a fight. There, see? Doesnt make it true.
     
  5. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    lol, but denial gets you nowhere. As does dancing in circles.

    Besides, its not like you to ignore facts that blatantly.
     
  6. moneypaysbills

    moneypaysbills That's Mr moneypaysbills Full Member

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    The article also says that Calzaghe had contacted Pavlik to try and make a fight and Pavlik wanted no part of it. With him saying this stuff about him, why wouldn't Pavlik come out to deny these claims?

    Also the fact that Pavlik was at MW and calling out a shot old LHW is quite damning anyway and just consolidates how much of a joke he was in the end
     
  7. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    Certainly I am not trying to sell Pavlik who is a limited aggressive fighter IMHO, I dont care for him.

    But I dont see why anyone in the world would read anywhere close to everything thats written about him/her on the web, expecially if they are celebs. It would be an impossible task. A lot of people dont even care to answer, like Ashley Cole keeping zip about Cheryl.

    Personally I'd agree with Pavlik and Ashley about keeping schtum. I'd leave my talking to my fists if I was a fighter, or only start talking if the fight wasnt selling.
     
  8. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    looking at Pavlik's record, I have to now concede he is pretty good.
    I think I'd like to amend my comment about him, hes got some great attacking skills. He appears to be, like Kessler, just a bit stupid sometimes in the ring, being outfoxed by superior ring IQ.

    Am gonna watch his Bhop fight next.
     
  9. moneypaysbills

    moneypaysbills That's Mr moneypaysbills Full Member

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    Alright fair enough, but to be fair it was probably on the news on TV a well. Although Pavlik probably doesn't have a sky subscription. However, surely he would have heard of it along the grapevine or via his press officer. I feel for someone like him to be completely unaware is just too assuming

    :bart:bart:bart
     
  10. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    lol

    Would you be big on talk if you were a fighter? Just wondering what type you'd be, a trashtalking big mouth, a comeback slingking, a sly digster or the strong silent type? this deserves a poll and a new thread.
     
  11. moneypaysbills

    moneypaysbills That's Mr moneypaysbills Full Member

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    In all honesty probably some loudmouth idiot who shoots my mouth off too much

    :yep:yep:yep

    However, I wouldn't take up training sponsered by Jack Daniel's and johnny Walker
     
  12. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    LOL wise.

    I dont think I could avoid trying to be a comeback king but I honestly dont think I'd be fast enough to be good at it. Probs best 4 me to stick to doing the strong silent type a la Manny.

    Forgot to mention the polite gentleman category (a la Valuev). Oh I really gotta do a poll on this.
     
  13. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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  14. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Part 2.



    He knew after Hopkins that he only had one more fight left in him. Roy brought the name and the pay cheque that Carl couldn't match. But it would of been a better fight to end his career on. I'm sure he would of beaten Carl easily at that point. In the end he went out beating Roy, who was 9 weeks from his 40th birthday, who'd been destroyed by Glen Johnson 4 years earlier, and who Joe had himself dismissed as a challenge, at the beginning of 2008.



    My opinion on this is covered in the, Do people rate Roy's win over Hopkins? thread, that you have commented on. I don't know if you've seen it?

    My opinion is, Roy Snr held Roy back when he was younger, and protected him far too much. Have you seen the Roy Jones documentary Beyond the Glory? When Toney was fighting the likes of Nunn, and McCallum was fighting Kalambay, Roy was fighting nobodies in Pensacola. When he finally got his shot against Hopkins for the vacant belt, guys like Toney, Nunn and McCallum had all fought each other. After the Hopkins win, Roy was fighting guys at 163-168 and was becoming tight at the weight.

    He was approaching 25 years of age, so he moved up to fight Toney. There's guys on here that think he avoided Jackson, Nunn and McCallum, but I just don't see it. I think if he'd have progressed quicker, he'd have been in the mix with them. I think had he stayed at 160, and not moved up, and not fought them, then you could make a case. But in my opinion, it doesn't make sense for a guy to challenge a then 26 year old James Toney at a higher weight, who was considered the one of the best fighters in the world, if you were scared of fighting those guys at a weight below. So I don't think he ducked those guys at 160.

    At 168 he beat the best guy out there. Now without being biased and making a long list of excuses for Roy, there were lots of reasons, and circumstances why he missed a lot of fighters. Nearly every week on here, we get a why did Roy duck such and such? But again they are valid reasons.


    Chris Eubank is always a name that gets thrown around. He's admitted on numerous ocassions that he never chased the big money fights, and was happy doing what he was doing on Sky.

    Benn always gets mentioned. General Zod has posted a great thread titled, Benn, Jones and King, that's very interesting, with lots of great links and quotes. Check it out. Don King wanted a three fight option on Roy, whereas Roy only wanted a one fight deal. Neither would back down, so the fight never got made.

    Frankie Liles was a great fighter, who had beaten Roy in the amateurs. I think that would of been a very awkward fight for Roy, but Frankie was Don King's man.

    Steve Collins was a warrior who Roy did duck, but not out of fear of losing. The work duck gets thrown around a lot, but there's a difference between ducking someone for fear of losing, and dismissing them. At the time that Collins wanted the fight, HBO weren't interested, he'd been inactive, he didn't have a belt, he didn't bring any money to the table, and he wasn't a mandatory. So Roy would of gained nothing from it. He fought worse fighters like Frazier etc, but he had to fight them if he wanted to keep his belts. Collins was ducked/dismissed at the time, to fight Reggie Johnson to unify the 175 division.

    Calzaghe was never a viable opponent for Roy, as they fought in different weight classes, and Joe was reluctant to move up, and wanted the crown jewels to face him. But he was never going to get the payday he wanted, because at the time he was relatively unknown outside of Europe.

    G-Man, Roy had known Gerald for years, and I don't believe Roy was looking to fight him, but had the terrible tradgedy not occured, then maybe they could of met down the line.

    Micheal Nunn, great fighter at his peak, and he was Roy's mandatory in the late 90's at 175 I believe. I think Roy should have fought him, but at that time, Micheal was a shadow of his former self.

    DM, Roy gets a lot of unfair abuse in my opinion over DM. Nobody in 2001, could have expected Roy to have gone over to Germany when he had three belts. Especially as some of the judging was disgraceful, and he'd been scarred from the 88 Olympics in Seoul. DM turned down two opportunites to go to America, and according to Roy in a recent interview, HBO offered him $5M.


    So Roy did miss a lot of fighters, but apart from Nunn and Collins, I don't think he ducked anyone between those weights. I think the only name missing from his resume that should be there is DM, but again I don't blame him for not going to Germany at the time. The Hopkins rematch would also have been nice, but in my opinion Bernard priced himself out.

    But, Castro, Hopkins, Malinga, Tate, Toney, Sosa, McCallum, (passed his best) Griffin, De Valle, Hill, Reggie Johnson, Gonzalez, Harding, Woods, Tarver and Ruiz, are all very good wins, some of them being great.

    A lot of fighters that Roy beat, had done good things before they lost to Roy, and a lot of them went onto to do good things afterwards. Yes his resume could have been stronger, but I think it's still pretty strong, especially if you take into consideration the manner in which he beat most of them.



    True, but again it was weak for the majority of his reign, and it took him 9 years to do it. You could argue that Ottke didn't want the fight to unify, but at that point Joe should have moved up. The 175 division was a lot stronger in my opinion. Apart from DM, as discussed, Roy cleaned out the 175 division, and went up to heavy and back in-between. I think that's much more of an accomplishment, than waiting 9 years to unify against Kessler.


    Great debate!

    I'm looking foward to your response. If you have anything else that you want to discuss, then just let me know.


    Regards, Loudon.
     
  15. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico Loyal Member Full Member

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    Heck no.