The men who could beat Ali

Please Wes, using your correct insight you might wake him up...Oh my
these uninformed posters have no sense of a past fighters prime or
when they were old and shot as boxers...They know name only...atsch

 

How is that correct insight?
WE have a smart boxer like Tunney who beat Dempsey, Spinks is no Dempsey so how can they be comparable ? So unless a prime Dempsey absolutely murders Tunney theres no way he can beats a bigger,stronger,faster,clever boxer in Ali

 

The analogy is that the Dempsey of the Tunney fights was as washed out as the version of Ali who fought Spinks and therefore far from a prime-for-prime type of affair you typically imagine in H2Hs. Nothing really to do with the styles of Jack and Leon.

 

Sir, before i hit the sack, WHEN WE ON ESB COMPARE FIGHTERS IN A FANTASY MATCH WE MEAN WHEN THEY WERE IN THEIR PRIMES....
Any knowledgeable poster knows that the 32 year old Dempsey had not fought in THREE years without a tuneup bout and was a rusty shot fighter..
As anyone on ESB knows that the Ali of the Spinks bout, the Larry Holmes bout, the Trevor Berbick bout was Ali in NAME only...Please study boxing history so you can understand it's glorious but complicated history...

 

I understand but Dempsey only had a handful of fights in his prime, I am a huge Dempsey fan, But he wasn't known for his ring smarts more his aggression,speed and punch which Ali has beaten and Tunney really out boxed him.
So I am saying if we have a window of seeing a Ali vs Dempsey then Tunney is a good indication of how things would go because ultimately Ali was better then Tunney at everything except Ali could take huge huge punishment and his footwork and speed were superior.

So Bert how does Dempsey handle a fighter like that?
Does Dempsey out punch Liston,Foreman?
Is Dempseys left hook a lot better then Fraziers?
Did Dempsey do the peek and boo style more effective then Patterson?
Did Dempsey take A LOT of punishment from big hitters?
Did Dempsey ever fight someone with such fast counter punching and reflects?

Answer would be no.

Ali beats Dempsey.

If not I would like to hear your thoughts on what happens

 

Does Dempsey out punch Liston,Foreman?
Is Dempseys left hook a lot better then Fraziers?
Did Dempsey do the peek and boo style more effective then Patterson?
Did Dempsey take A LOT of punishment from big hitters?
Did Dempsey ever fight someone with such fast counter punching and reflects?
Has Dempsey ever fought someone with better footwork as Ali?

Please Dempsey would be floored.

 

I don't disagree that he beats him, just interpreting what WesMan meant. I think.

 

Bert,

Tommy Gibson vs Jack Dempsey Prime.
Look what happened.

Case closed.

 

None top 10 picks aren't getting it done, Ali unlike other HW greats is a complete boxer. He was past his prime against Norton and underestimating him first time, last time he was borderline shot

Walcott and Harold Johnson would get royally hammered. Too small, too slow and simply not as good

The picks I'd give as a chance:

Holyfield - workrate combinations, jab, left hook, speed, footwork - still favour Ali

Wlad - the jab, the spoiling, the size, the power

Tyson - speed/power, left hook

Holmes - a chance Holmes jabs wins a close decision, but not a large chance

No one else against a prime Ali, not Louis, not Marciano, not anyone pre Ali in fact none are nowhere near good enough

 

I'd only bet on prime Tyson to be beat prime Ali.

 

Wlad has no chance against prime Ali. Being big just means your that much slower and Wlad is slow. Ali uses him as a punching bag before the fight is stopped.

When Ali made his comments concerning Marciano it was during a 2 hour long discussion regarding all past hwt champions where clips were shown and Ali then commented. The only fighter Ali made any reference that could beat him was Rocky. Rocky could go 20 rounds with constant punching and by all accounts he was a brutal puncher. Frazier only had one good punch and that was the left hook. Marciano had ko power in both fists. He certainly would have a good shot at beating Ali in his prime.

 

Even if Dempsey wasn't the same guy who got outboxed by Miske, fatty lightweight meehan, tunney and nearly ko'd against some weight lifter that never boxed in his life before, well even then if he saw some big black man across the ring, he'd jump out of it, even if it meant jumping into a volcano, rather that than relive his rib breaking nightmare

Yes to the naysayers, that's how couragous Dempsey, no he wouldn't fight a black man but he'd jump into a volcano, that's right and it's why I rate him no1 HW of all time.

 

The bar is high for a reason. Again Ali was 31 against Norton, around the same age you claim Dempsey was past it

Norton in another era.....a highly conditioned 6'3 technical boxer? Not many pre-70s at least, most men of that size had little skill