If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Baileys double standards agan.

If Loudon assumes Joe meant millions by the crown jewels, which he more than likely did, and unless you know for fact that he didn't, which you dont, than that is just your opinion. The exact figure is of no bearing to anything and is just a tool for you to try ridicule Loudon. Trying to get to the bottom of what the figure was will go nowhere. What it really meant was a price out.

By your method of proving how good a fighter is, if Kessler beat Froch and Froch beat Bute, than would Ward beat Bute?

You evaluate Joe's record on that theory, which is clearly bull****.

 

Bailey,

You're the only one arguing. I like Kessler. The thing with you is, you don't allow for circumstances, when you post facts like these. Roy was one of the greatest fighters who ever lived. Joe easily beat him. Does that mean that Joe was better than Roy, and Joe was one of the greatest fighters that's ever lived? Of course not. Joe was great, but he'll never be classed as one of the greatest ever, like Roy. Jirov was a good win for Toney.

Ha! I asked a question after I'd argued my point. It didn't matter what the answer to the question was. The question was, did he beat Cummins for a vacant title? You laughed and said no. My point was, that Kessler was a good fighter, but he'd never beaten an elite fighter, going into the fight with Joe. That was my point that I was arguing. Cummins, Sciaca, Andrade, Mundine, beyer were all good but not GREAT WINS. That was my argument. It didn't matter if he beat Cummins for a vacant title or not. Stop being stupid. It's you who's showing himself up.

That's your opinion, and I respect that.

That's fair enough, but Eubank was an old 31, like Hearns and Ali were. It doesn't seem old, but he aged a lot quicker than most other fighters of similar age.

Correct. Carl Thompson was a strong guy, and Eubank pushed him really close twice. But the point still stands, that Eubank wasn't fully prepared, and he was at the end of his career. But I class that win as a good win for Joe. He came of age that night. I can see where you're coming from. Like I say, you could make arguments for the others too. But I went with Kessler, becasue he was at his peak, and it was to unify the title, that Joe had waited so long to do. Do you think Joe would have beaten the best versions of Eubank, Benn and Collins?

Yes but it's a minute irrelevant little fact, the same as Cummins. My Kessler argument was, that he hadn't beaten any elite fighters. It didn't matter if I was right or wrong saying asking if he'd beaten Cummins for a vacant title.

The same applies here. My argument was that Grant got paid less than a million to fight Roy, and based on Joe's crown jewels comment, we know that he wouldn't have fought Roy for a under a million. That was my main point. The specific amount isn't important in the grand scheme of things. It doesn't matter if he got paid $10 or $900,000. My point was, Grant was willing to fight for a purse, that Joe wouldn't have fought for. If you think that Joe would have fought Roy for $300,000 when he'd said he'd want the crown jewels, then you're an idiot!

I don't know the exact amount. So let me ask you. How much do you think he was talking about?

Anyone with a brain can safely assume, that he was talking about more than a million.

You like to twist and turn things to suit your argument.

We don't need to know the exact figure that Joe would have wanted. Why? Because we know it would DEFINITELY have been more than what Grant, Frazier and Woods got. This is a safe assumption to make.

Once again, you copy and paste Joe's claims, but then when someone like me rips his ridiculous claims, the only thing you can say is, oh it was off the cuff. No it wasn't off the cuff. It was a ****ing lie!

You're happy to claim that he CHASED Roy after McIntyre, but when I ask how? You can't answer! Just saying he kept winnin, is not enough. I've asked you this question three times, and you haven't answered, so I'll try for the 4th time.

After McIntyre, Joe remained at 168, to fights the likes of Miguel Jiminez.

HOW WAS STAYING AT 168, TO FIGHT THE LIKES OF MIGUEL JIMINEZ, GOING TO GET HIM A BIG MONEY FIGHT AGAINST ROY JONES, WHO WAS THE UNIFIED 175 CHAMPION??

What's your opinion? There's only me mentioning millions? Ha!

How much do you think he was referring to?

"I think I could give Roy Jones a tough fight. Maybe the toughest he's ever had. But I know what my CAPABILITIES are, and unless I got paid the Crown Jewels, I wouldn't want it."

Now does that sound like he was talkng about millions, or a few hundred grand? I know you like an argument, but don't be thick!

I'm an intelligent guy, that's logical, and I think it's safe for me to assume, that he was talking about a lot of money!

Fact is, Joe wanted huge money, when outside of Europe, he was relatively unknown.

That's also a bad analogy. Why would Joe be offered ten times his normal amount to fight Roy?

Ha! Why would Joe have been offered anything?

Clinton Woods was offered an amount. Do you know why?
Because he was Roy's mandatory at 175.

Frazier was offered an amount. Do you know why?
Because he was Roy's mandatory at 175.

Otis was offered an amount. Do you know why?
Because he was willing to fight Roy at 175.

None of the above applied to Joe at the time.

What do you think would have happened, if Joe had've been offered $900,000 to fight Roy? Do you think he'd have accepted it? Ha!

 

Hi mate, thanks for the responses, as I have a lot of work on over the next couple of days I'll get back to you on thursday or friday :good

 

Part 2.

We're going around in circles. You would have to be an IDIOT to think that he wasn't talking about millions.

Maybe he would have accepted 300K? Haha!

Ha! More than 300K!

Yes it's only my opinion, that he could have beaten DM. But that was an avenue he could have explored to get Roy in the ring. It's you who believes Joe, when he says that he chased him for 5 to six years.

Look, you're not going to believe anything that you don't want to believe. If I give you the link to Roy's interview, you'll not believe him anyway. If I got you a link discussing the exact terms, you'd still dismiss it. How many links has Zod posted, that you still dismiss?

We've got a credible link of Joe saying "I'm not chasing Roy Jones. Roy Jones is a good fighter, but I don't want tough fights, I just want to be well paid!"

It was there in black and white, and still you try to fight his corner.

And? That accounts for one year.

The method he used, was to fight in America, up at 175.

Joe didn't want to fight at 175 or in America. He didn't do either til 2008.

And then he continued to do what he'd be doing, which was fighting guys like Jiminez, at 168, in Britain. That wasn't going to get him a Roy Jones fight for big money.

He said he wanted big money fights against the likes of Roy, and DID NOTHING else to back up what he'd said.

No but to get Roy in the ring, what were his options?

He either had to continue to fight at 168 and forget all about Roy.

Or he had to give up his 168 belt, to make a real push for the fight.

It would have been a big gamble, but it would have showed he was genuine.

Joe said in the pre fight build up in 2008, that Joe had wanted to fight him for a while.

Is that your interpretation of Roy agreeing that Joe had chased him for 6 years to no avail? Ha!

You mean you can't give me an answer.

Ha! It's longer than 6 years now is it? Ha! But you can't tell me when exactly?

Against who?

Jiminez? Again, how was that going to secure him a big money fight with Roy?

What about the other 5 years?

The Hopkins negotiations were 2001/2002. Joe didn't end up in America for another 6 years.

How has it proved he was lying?

Because his bull**** claims don't add up. I've proven this, but all you can say is, it was off the cuff.

He claims he chased Roy for years.

You can't SERIOUSLY chase someone if you don't fight at their weight class or in their country. Which Joe didn't do until 2008, when Roy was nearly 40!

THAT PROVES HE WAS FULL OF ****!

Ha! Why the **** else would he try and embarrass Floyd like that? Floyd was at home fuming. He got straight on the phone to Leonard Ellerbe and demanded that the fight be made.

No! He mentioned his name and then did nothing to back up what he'd said.

How did he build a fanbase? By fighting there like you've just mentioned. The casual American PPV fans picked up on him, and they watched him beat Castillo.

When he mocked Floyd, people watched and knew who he was.

When Joe mentioned Roy, hardly anyone had seen him him fight, and knew nothing about him.

Because of what Ricky said, there was interest in a Hatton vs Mayweather fight.

How many American fans do you think would have spoke about a potential Roy Jones vs Calzaghe fight?

Nobody knew who he was unitl he'd beaten Lacy in 2006, at 34.

Such as this one,

"I'm not chasing Roy Jones. I don't want tough fights!" - Joe Calzaghe in 1999.


Regards, Loudon.

 

No problem mate, no rush, just reply back whenever you have time.



Regards, Loudon.

 

yeah.. no.

the difference in respect we are debating is between the wbo compared to the other bodies. nobosy wantesd the wbo title not because it was a SMW title, that would be absurd, they regarded it lightly because it was a WBO title. That was the only reason given in the wikipedia entry, there is no reference to individual weight divisions. Its like having a Fiat badge on a car, it becomes less wanted instantly. I try to explain this but I suspect you are taking the **** by not noticing that now.

We are not debating the difference in respect for the smw titles alone. The smw title is a subset of the wbo body, its not the other way round.

 

I'm sorry but we must have our wires cross somewhere, because I was talking specifically about the WBO Super Middleweight Title and its worth in relation to the titles in the division, not the WBO and the worth of the organization as a whole.

Being a WBO Title made it lesser to the WBC, WBA or IBF, I dont deny that, but being lesser to the other three didn't make it worthless, and in the Super Middleweight Division the IBF Title was the only one with a significantly longer history than the WBO, and the IBF Title was the only one that could boast bigger names and title fights than the WBO between 1988 and 1997.

Summarizing, I wouldn't have a problem with you saying the WBO Super Middleweight Title was not as important a title as the other three based on the importance of its sanctioning body, but I do have a problem with you calling it worthless when it had no less history in its division and had not had a significantly weaker level competitor than the WBC or WBA

 

yeah I specifically am referring to the body giving ALL the wbo titles historcially less weight than the major boxing body counterparts.. It wasnt me at any stage who was being division specific.

 

No it wasn't you, it was me asking why you thought a specific title in a specific division was worthless. If you'd just said "it's because the WBO didn't have any real legitimacy at the time" in the first place rather than accusing me of being Bailey we wouldn't be here now.

 

Why argue against Calzaghe's own words? He never pushed for a Roy fight in his prime... He spoke it with his own words, but his actions spoke even louder..

What did he do to get it?

Nothing.

It was not Roy's job at that point in his day to go after Calzaghe... Roy went after Calzaghe when it was his job. And he got the fight.

Dominating undefeated Hanshaw, highly ranked Ajamu, and destroying ATG Tito Trinidad... Was more than enough for Joe to see Roy a threat, and a big money fight.

 

Bailey does have a lot of alts to swing polls his way.

 

Well, as far as this poll goes, I voted no weeks ago. Calzaghe would be a fool to come out of retirement to fight Ward.

 

No. He been out too long and he'd get worked.