ATG: Why would you Rank Floyd above Pacquaio and Vice Versa?

Where the hell is Mickey Walker?

No Joe Gans, Leonard (B), Ross, McClarnin, Chavez, Hopkins, Jofre ,etc?

 

B. Leonard is the only guy there I'll give you props for, and I had him on the list before I did the count and realized I forgot Fitzsimmons.

Chavez, Hopkins.... Not for me...

Everyone both of us listed are clear top 40 guys though.
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Oh, and would you really take guys off of my list to make room for the guys you listed??

 

Tunney, Johnson, Saddler, Monzon, Mayweather, Pacquiao are not Walker, Leonard, Gans, Ross type ATGs.

They are top 40 guys. There with Mike Spinks and Alexis Arguello (not bad at all)

 

Just out of curiosity, how far up would you put RJJ in the rankings?

 

I couldn't disagree more with Monzon or Tunney.

 

This is all fair.

I don't penalize Pac for losin the 1st EM fight. A loss obviously is a hit to your res, but it wasn't an embarrassing loss at all. The revenge angle made Pac's win in the rematch that much better. And I don't see why anybody cares about EM losin to Raheem. That had **** all to do with Pac-EM 2. He was still favored to beat Pac again and was indeed beatin him in the 1st half of the fight. I'm witchu on Pac-EM 3, it don't mean much to me.

I agree May over Chico was huge, but Chico as I said, don't qualify for greatness. A good fighter and seen as a huge threat to May at the time. But on the whole, he wasn't great before or after May beat him.

I think May-JLC 2 was a great win for May. I just don't see him havin 2 wins over him cuz I've always thought he lost the 1st. 1 win obviously ain't as good as 2.

I rate Pac and May in the ATG context of this thread for their prime wins, hence the discussion we're havin about em. Pac-JMM 3 ain't in their prime so I don't figure it in. And even if I did, I ain't one of the ppl who feels JMM won outright. It's 6-6 or 7-5 either way you look at it imo. I don't see either guy as a winner in that fight. JMM got sentimental points for not gettin iced like most expected him to. He hardly dominated that fight.

 

Top 40 for sure. Probably 35. Right there with Hopkins. I literally rank them equally, Hopkins one spot above, all time.

I'd have to make the list again. I focus on being consistent as possible with how I value what I see or read. So, it changes as I learn or watch more.

 

Good stuff.

Ah, refreshing to have a smart, civil conversation with someone about these two...

 

Tunney made it a point to duck his tough black challengers and got a gift over Greb in their draw.


Monzon beat the same guys over again. His title reign was excellent but there were middleweight champs that did that and MORE, like Hopkins, Walker, Greb, Robinson for example.

 

Hopkins' top competition doesn't hold a candle to Monzon over: Benvenuti twice, Griffith twice, Valdez twice, Briscoe, Napoles and the rest of his insanely better resume than Hopkins' that it is not funny for you to troll like that. I'm serious, that is an opinion which holds no possible merit.

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As for Tunney/Greb... Oh, are you gonna cry?? What about the other 4 fights?

 

Pac... Better resume with more higher level opponents.:bbb

 

Top 5 all-time H2H at Middleweight (#3 for me, behind Monzon and Hagler)
#1 All-Time H2H at 168
Top 10 all-time H2H at LHW

Resume-wise, I'd say top 50.

 

Thats interesting, I'd also match Hopkins with RJJ, just based on his longevity and his achievements so far.

Hawkfan, :good

 

It strongly depends what criteria you use for ranking ATGs.

If you rank resume (the major factor), then very clearly, it's Pac (by quite a bit).

If you rank H2H, overall dominance, losses and skills (the minor factors), it's Floyd (by a little bit).

I tend to lean towards resume, but in this instance (where both fighters have fought in the same era) I would have to go with their overall dominance in boxing.

I think a large part of being an ATG is always looking good in the ring (except on rare occasions - age etc). For that reason I don't feel Pac can be rated too highly.

In my opinion, both Floyd and Pac are around the same area, and pretty much interchangeable.