If Billy Conn beat Joe Louis.

No further comment from Mendoza ,addressing his statements that Conn had poor power at heavy, Louis had a shaky chin, Louis had a significant height advantage over Conn. All of which have been disproved.
Par for the course really.

 

McVey,

Once again your way off. Where to start? Conn wasn’t a puncher at all. His career KO% is 19.74%. That is about as low as it gets. Furthermore, Conn at 168 pound was decisively the smaller man. He also gave up 3.5” in reach, and a ton in hitting power. Yet his speed and skills since the height and reach were close enough off set Louis advantages in weight and power.

Braddock wasn’t a puncher either. His career KO% is only 30.25%. I fail to see one top level opponent that Braddock stopped. And Braddock had not fought in 2 years when he defended against Louis. Though he did manage to floor Louis early and win another round before gassing.

Once again, imagine if Wlad or Lewis fought a cruiser with modest power, and were floored and lost two rounds before the opponent gassed. They would be laughed and ridiculed! The internet chin police would be out in full force. There’s a blatant double standard when analyzing past greats though film which does not lie as you do.

So light hitters ( Farr, Conn and Braddock ) stunned Louis or floored him. This is not the mark
of a good chin, and if Louis was in there with heavier hitters ( guys who hit harder than Conn or Braddock and also had skills ), he’s in some trouble just like he was in the Schmeling match. Once again, not being stopped has is not the best bench mark of chins. Chins are best graded when they are hit. Take Wlad for example he only has 3 KO looses in 61 fights. Not bad, but does he have a good chin? No. Films tell us this. The same applies for Louis, and when light punchers either floored or stunned him, his chin should be questioned.

Louis was behind and could not catch Conn in 12 rounds, so the fight would likely be very similar if the match was 12 rounds. Conn likely wins via decision here. Most would agree. It was Conn’s folly to go for the KO. To paraphrase Louis, “ Billy you had the title for 12 rounds. “ Translation if the match was 12 rounds, you won.

Now for several off tangent points not related to this thread, which I only intend to reply to once. This is your tactic, as we both can see what happened on film to Louis. You know I am right here, so you take the argument in a different direction….

It is well known that Louis’ mangers had a cozy relationship with NY, and one of his managers was later convicted with mob links. Are you aware of the gambling problems and fixed fights in NY? Unfortunately in boxing the promoters / mangers pick the judges, and back then the ref’s used to score fights. Is there proof things were not on the level in Louis fights? No, but there is a lot of smoke. If you watch the films you will see Louis personal ref for 15+ title fights ( Donovan ) somehow scored the Farr fight 14-1 in favor of Louis. This is a BS card. Farr won at least six rounds clean, maybe more. The scoring in the first Godoy fight was way off too.

Jeffries was operating under 25 rounds. If you read a quality round by round report which details the action, the fight was about even or slightly in Jeffries favor prior to the KO in round 23. If the match was 20, Jeffries would have likely pressed it sooner than he did.

Johnson vs. Willard was 45 rounds. There was plenty of time. Had it been 20, I tend to doubt Willard would have would have waited as long as he did to press the action. Could Willard had stopped Johnson in 20? Sure. Willard hurt Johnson with body shots prior to the KO, the laid him out flat on his back with a 10 count in round 26. The fight was not a fix as Johnson lies. If the match was 12 rounds or 15 rounds I think Johnson wins. If the match was 25 rounds, I think Willard wins as Johnson was hurt bad on film in round 25. Then again I never see you watch/comment on films pre 1930 not on youtube.

Lastly, it’s blatantly obvious that anyone who critiques a white fighter to you is fair game, and in some cases you’ll even fan the flames. However if someone objectively analyzes boxing and the comment does not hold the black fighter in a positive light, you’ll become angry and play the race card. Such is the mark of a reverse racists or extremely liberal minded person who has a political interest beyond boxing. I’m not sure which you are. I think you simply use the ad hominem attack because facts and films don’t line up to your biased interests.

 

So Jeffries and Willard would have won their fights against Corbett and Johnson whatever the distance they were scheduled for ,though both were behind in their bouts ,yet if the Conn fight was for 12 rds Conn would have beaten Louis? Thats unbiased. The referee for the Willard figth said if the fight had been scored for 20 , that he would have given the decision to Johnson.

NB that is not the same as saying Willard would have won over 20rds.

Ive read the Corbett Jeffries ringside reports Corbett was comfortably in front in all the major papers. there again, I've read an old statement from you that Jeffries was level at the half way stage against Johnson. You make it up as you go along.

One of the judges in the Godoy fight gave it 10-4 to Louis, Donovan gave it 10-5.
And Donovan did not give Louis 14 rds against Farr ,look it up.

John Roxborough was a numbers runner thats his mob link.
Donovan was the referee in 11 of Louis's title defences,and in his return bouts where he had had very close fights with Godoy,Walcott and Conn, Donovan was not the third man, if ,as you suggest Donovan was "in the bag" . he would have been in the ring for those defences would he not?
That's another of your "theories" blown out of the water.
I see you've quietly dropped the stance that Louis had significant height advantages over Conn , being as I pointed out they were the same height. another howler from you.
Once again you are swimming against the tide with no evidence to support your stance. Are we surprised ? NO.

 

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Woulda shoulda coulda but just for the sake of it, Louis standing drops quite a bit given Conn is a 167lbs, especially in H2Hs, Conn goes up in the P4P top20 and maybe top10, disagree with McGrain he doesn't makes the top10 HWs - Tunney doesn't, neither does Charles/Spinks. Conn would have to do allot to make that list

Conn if his manager has any sense DOES NOT rematch Louis

 

Here is the NY Times report of the Jeffries Corbett fight.including the 6th rd when Corbett staggered Jeffries and had him groggy.It also mentions Jeffries backhanding, and elbowing Corbett.
Read it again, and tell me Jeffries was in front .
I've watched Farr/Louis fight many times, my Father spoke to Farr who readily conceded Louis beat him,and he never presumed to say he had Louis groggy or staggered.

I never suggested that Donovan refereed either of the Walcott fights.:huh
Don't call people lacking in reading comprehension if you can't digest a sentence yourself ,numb nuts.
You have the literary skills of a ******ed chimp.
Reverse racism? My favourite heavyweight is Dempsey.Middleweight Greb.
You called me a moron twice, has it ever occurred to you that Donovan scored one round even?
You dont qualify to be a moron , you haven't the requisite amount of grey matter

 

Had Conn won, I think he becomes top 15 P4P all time. I'm wondering if he won, and let's say avoided Louis for two fights, who does he defend against and does he win?

 

Conn could have had a couple of defences with careful opponent selection, but the big money would have been in a Louis rematch.

Melio Bettina was ranked highly at heavyweight around that time, so this might have been a good option for him.

 

Thanks. Yeah I am sure the Louis rematch would have occurred and pretty soon but I think Conn's management would have went for an easier defense or two instead of the immediate rematch. Bettina is an interesting choice. Sounds about right.

 

Maybe Conn would take on Lem Franklin, and get kayoed, creating more chaos and tension, so that Louis will take awhile to get his title back.

 

Conn was beating Louis, and proved he was better Lb for Lb , for 12 rounds.

It was enough to have me rate him as the Number 1 Lt hvy of all time.

Louis looked like a world beater when he fought B level fighters, when he met world greats he struggled or lost..... I think he is slightly overrated on this forum.

 

Louis is overrated as hell. I can't see any of the other great HWs losing to Schmeling or getting schooled by Conn.

 

That's about the size of it,although Louis is not my number 2