Please, Rank The Victory: Volume 2: Jack Dempsey KO7 Jack Sharkey

Something a bit understated is jack, iirc, was just under 200 for this fight and carried his weight pretty well. Not too hard to imagine him being about the same size as Frazier with more modern training.

 

well there you have it

 

Well that settles it then .

And no to whoever said I was penalising him for taking out his opponents early, it's just I've never seen Dempsey as a Marciano-esque type guy being able to grind his man down after being beaten the first half of a fight. Particularly since Dempsey was past-prime and just coming from what would be the worst beating of his career (Tunney I).

 

Same here. Sharkey was a name, but the result due to the foul was poor.

 

There was a thread about fights in which one disagrees with the consensus. I didn't post there but if I did I would post this fight for two main reasons

1--Sharkey was well ahead?

The film, for me, shows a competitive fight, and from the weak evidence I have been able to dig up, the official scoring was also close.

2--Sharkey was fouled?

I don't see this on the film. It seems to be drawing conclusions from Sharkey's actions. The problem is Sharkey doesn't seem at all in trouble until he was hit on the chin. Three possible explanations come to mind. Sharkey was acting. Sharkey hurt himself by landing wrong when he went hard to the canvas. The blow to the chin effected nerves running down his body (this last is not as far-fetched as you might think) causing the bizarre reaction we see.

**bottom line--I don't see devaluing this victory on either basis.

 

Edward, check out the link I left on the 2nd page - comment #18, it's the KO only and a better qualty than the film of the entire fight. You can clearly see just before Sharkey complains to the ref that Dempsey is working the right hand a bit low and the last one caused Jack to yell at the ref. I don't think they were that hard. I really never saw Dempsey draw his arm back for a good wallop to the twins but when Dempsey landed the left to the jaw I believe Sharkey tried to take advantage of the low shots. Sharkey had taken some really good shots to the jaw with no effect and the way he fell makes me believe it wouldn't have dropped him at all. He didn't fall wrong. He had his senses and the clarity to begin clutching the twins and continued the charade after being counted out, dragging his feet to his corner. I think Sharkey was a fine fighter, very underrated, but on this night he tried to take it on a DQ and when it didn't happen he was stuck with that story for life.

 

scartissue--thank you for putting up this very clear film. It is the best I have seen.

1--I see no real low punches. Two of the three right hands appeared to me to be above the beltline. Only one was at the beltline, but hardly low enough to cause clutching the balls. Just what I see

2--"the way he fell"--I would have an entirely different take. Sharkey turned his head back and didn't even see that left hook coming. It caught him right on the point of the chin. He went down like he was shot. I think there is no way he could have reacted that fast to fake a knockdown that quickly and that convincingly. Also his facial expression looked out of it when I stopped the film. I think regardless of anything else he was out of it for some seconds and dropped hard. There is no faking there.

3--What gives all the credence to the foul talk is his clutching his groin and the way his legs splayed when he was carried to the corner, but there is something called reflected pain or reflected reaction. An extreme form is someone feeling pain in the fingers after the arm has been amputated. It is nerves reacting from somewhere else. My best guess is that this is what happened here. The blow to the chin effected a nerve running down his body.

There simply is no blow to the groin on the film to produce groin pain.

Just what I see, and thanks again for posting this very clear film.

 

tbh, low blows happen in boxing.

as stated, jack hit jack after the bell beforehand anyways.

as far as come from behind knockouts go, this is a very good one. I'm happy with my 7/8 score, would have been higher had Sharkey gone on to be a great champion (say beating Schmelling, Carnera and only losing to the rampaging Baer)

 

I love you Ray Charles, Im so glad to hear reports of your death were exaggerated.

 

Motion pictures were invented back in the 1870's when a rich guy put up money for someone to prove a horse has all four hooves off the ground at some time while galloping. A still frame proved it.

As a motion picture is a series of still pictures, the proving of a foul should be very easy in the case of a filmed fight.

Put up a still frame of the foul.

If you can't . . .

scoffing doesn't cut it.

 

delete

 

Scar Tissues link
KO at 0:40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So4fmOwRxqA&feature=youtu.be


Really not sure what sort of state sharkey was in. He did seem able to catch his fall a bit. Don't really know what shape his legs were in. Moved his hand low twice, the second time interupting his crawling efforts.