Did Folley take the fall against Ali?

I just don't think Folley had much of a chin...he was a patsy for Ali. I think Eddie Machen would have given Clay a much better fight. He was ballsier, could move better and had a better chin than Folley.

 

Are you Pepe in disguise?

 

Finally, somebody who agrees with me on Machen... he had more imagination than folley. he didn't roll oiver and die vs Liston..he didn't win, but he had no fear of Sonny. He taunted Liston till the end. machen really won my respect in that fight.

 

Ali and Folley were good friends before and after the fight.

Ali was quoted as saying Folley needed money and he wanted to give him a payday.

Dive- No clue- it looked like it, but who knows.

 

Folley's life and career was punctuated with episodes of strange behavior. The people around him attested that Zora was very, very odd, maybe even genuinely mentally ill, like Machen.

Do I think the fix was in? No. I just think Ali was in brilliant form, he beat the brakes of Folley who unraveled and suddenly thought, 'okay, that's enough' and he was stayed down when Ali dropped him.

 

I doubt that folley even saw that right hand because it was so fast. When a boxer sees a punch coming , his body tenses up so that if the punch did land, he could better absorb it.

Folley really didn't have a chance not only because of the speed of the punch but because of the angle tha it was thrown from. This is what made ali's punches so effective.

 

This.

Plus it was a well timed little peach of a punch that landed square.

 

Zora fought well in that bout, and did very well in the First 2-Rounds, winning
them both.

And held 'Even' ground for much of Round 3.

But, as usual, Zora was 'suspect' in the 'punch taking ability', as he liked to go to the
canvas. Sometimes for a rest, and sometimes to sleep.

No dive here, as Zora went as far as many had thought.

Cassius Clay defeated another old 1950's Heavyweight, who was at his prime
before JFK was President.

 

yes, he took the dive. All Ali KO's were dives, dont you know that?

 

Genuine question SP.

Which, if any, of Ali's title wins do you think were on the level and not a fix/dive/old opponent/dodgy ref or dodgier judges?

 

vs. Liston I............Obvious Funny Business (Follow The Money)
vs. Liston II...........Fix, Fake, Fraud, Phony
vs. Patterson.........Legitimate (Floyd had a Bad Back Though)
vs. Chuvalo...........Legitimate (George was a fill-in replacement though)
vs. London............Legitimate (London Falls Down)
vs. Cooper.............Legitimate (Heres Comes the Blood)
vs. Mildenberger......Legitimate (Milton Berle was the #1 WBA Challenger)
vs. Terrell..............Legitimate (Though Many said Ernie was Over-Rated)
vs. Williams............Legitimate (A Shell of a Fighter, Literally Shot)
vs. Folley..............Legitimate (Give the Old Guy a Chance)

 

First Ali Liston fight was formally investigated by Florida state authorities. They found no evidence of a fix.

Second Ali Liston fight was formally investigated by the NY state athletic commission. They found no evidence of a fix.

End of story.

 

I agree with Houdini. I don't back theories, if all official investigations clear a fight, its clear.

If Zora was taking a dive, it would have made more sense to just go, not fight extremely well. He gave Ali a nice match, and some difficulty.

Do I think he could have risen from the final knockdown? Yes. But most knockouts are a combination of hurting a fighter and breaking his spirit. It is possible, and indeed often necessary, to CONVINCE him to stay down. I find a consistent body attack to be the ticket, I'd imagine the sharp, quick, painful punches of Ali and his taunting style were his.