What if Tyson beat Douglas?

Funny thing is, I think it could have hurt him. Because Holyfield was next, and I think he'd straight up beat a Tyson coming in good shape. Of course, his fans would still make excuses for him. For most it would have been clear that a prime Tyson plain was beat, though. And that could hurt his standing.

 

Exactly. Upset losses hurt, but what hurts more is proving second best to your peers.

Beating Douglas on one haymaker means he probably continues to slide and slack, and he'd come off as Holyfields clear inferior. It'd absolutely hurt his standing worse.

 

Bokaj & Magna have nailed this subject good and proper.

 

You DID have to stand up to beat him.

The fighters who were intelligently aggressive and demonstrated real fortitude have a great record against Tyson. He had one approach. He was unable to say "Okay, I'll outbox you and move around you." No, he went at you and he beat your ass. Very men were ever able to do much about it but flat out run, hold, and survive. The fighters who stood to that and fought back had a ton of success.

It's absolutely valid, and a boxing truism. You can't beat a bully fighter if you let him bully you.

 

Perhaps in some cases, but I don't know if I'd agree across the board. I personally don't have a problem with the fact that Hearns was beaten by Hagler and Leonard. But I do think his record could do without the Barkley defeats. Dito in the case of Ali losing to Frazier, but also having the tarnishes of Norton and Spinks on there. In Tyson's case, dropping one to Douglas hurt his legacy to the extent where a lot of people pick him to lose to various greats, and use that specific performance as their basis. Had he fought a peaking Holyfield and lost in a great battle of epic proportions, then benefitted from the hindsite factor that Evander went on to being one of the division's best ever, I don't think it would have dented his resume in the way that the Douglas loss did.

 

If he'd have lost in an epic, competitive battle, I agree.

I think Holyfield would have made it even worse and more one-sided then Douglas, if Tyson bailed his night out with that uppercut.

Tyson wasn't mature enough to look at that fight and go, Wow, that was close, I better buck up. He just wasn't a very bright, considerate fighter. The actual loss was good for him; It beat back the myth of his own power in his own mind for just a bit longer(Douglas got up!), and it gave him hunger and something to fight for. It also encouraged him to make quite a few staff changes that were all for the better; Had he escaped Tokyo with the W, he might have not bothered.

 

Mentally Tyson was losing focus, if he had beaten Douglas (who only really impressed me in that fight) he would have lost to Evander or someone else who was not intimidated. In heavyweight boxing at the top level you need all of the edge you can get mentally to stay at the top of the Heep...

 

Fantasy my ass. Getting embarrassed by a 42-1 shot would most definitely light a fire to Tyson's ass. It might not get Rooney back on the team but having a rubber in the corner for an enswell isn't likely going to fly any longer.

 

Tyson was WAY too immature to take that lesson in stride. He never did anything in his career, made a single decision from day one to day done to prove that he had the career sense to make the appropriate lifestyle adjustments to learn lessons.

When the last semblance of the home he was raised in, Kevin Rooney, left the picture, Tyson went off the rails, and he never did rally back.

 

Yep. It's not like the media didn't have Mike's ear. I'm positive he'd hear negative rumblings about cutting Rooney off after 2 out of 3 abysmal performances. Giachetti would come in for sure.

 

If Mike had the mind and the heart to make mature, focused changes to fix legitimate training and tactical problems, he'd have never gone to prison, not faded as fast, and quite probably gone down as the heavyweight GOAT, or damn close to.

He was a fine, fine fighter, but we don't remember him as loftily as Louis, Ali, and Holmes for a reason, and, in my estimation, this is it, in a nutshell.

 

You might be right but he did improve after every fight under Rooney. Obviously this is a totally different situation with Giachetti being brought in. Even with Giachetti on board Tyson would skip camp during the Ruddock fights. But I do believe with someone like Holyfield next and Foreman and Ruddock getting shots down the line, Tyson would shape up. He was immature but he wasn't dumb.

 

Yep. He was a spoiled brat who didn't want to work hard anymore. I might have even done the same in his situation.

 

This is very true, and I commented on the need to get rid of men like Bright, Snowel and Halloway in an earlier post. The Douglas defeat resulted in the hiring of former Holmes' trainer rich Giachetti, who I think lit a fire beneath Mike's ass for at least a brief period.

 

Tyson was also an EXTREMELY proud champion; Don't discount the hunger to get the damn belt back in lighting the fire under him.