Hagler vs Leonard - Who had the advantage?

He didn't read the book, Rooster.

 

well weight and where he fought successfully say something different. And I can bet had they had a on the night weight in back at that time, he would have always been significantly above the fights weigh in weight.

 

Hill would have broken the top 5, and you saying that shows how underrated Virgil Hill was. 25 title defenses and some a gainst decent people. And to say he would destroy Hearns or Hill easily? I am not sure about that. Not many people destroyed Hearns easily, and the topic is Hagler. Why didn't Hagler who always wanted Duran,Leonard and Hearns to move up, do the same and fight Spinks. It was not about money, it was about proving how good a fighter he was. Which is why I always thought Hearns is a greater fighter than Hagler. He beat great guys for titles Cuevas,Benitez,Hill and knocked out a great in defense of his title (Duran) and won titles in 5 or 6 weight classes if you count his IBO Cruiserweight title, but probably that would not be counted.
What makes me think Tommy would have fought Spinks is back in 1985 Steward and Hearns said that was their plan if they beat Hagler, and they asked Spinks and he said I would love to fight Hearns.

 

they're not interested in facts so much as they are storybook endings

I told people here along time ago I watched him in training and assessed him as finished.

How can anyone ignore the fact Sugar waited 5 yrs for this fight. He sucks

 

he did wait. Ray knows as well as anyone that it doesn't matter when you beat a great fighter if you have his name on your resume and a win- that no one will care much about people guessing Marvin was finished, even though he was inactive and not very motivated anymore. But at the same time, you have to give Ray credit for fooling Marvin into fighting. Marvin wanted Ray on his resume as much as Ray wanted Marvin on his. Ray knew that his buddies Hearns and Duran fought Hagler, and he would be left out. And Ray not fighting the rematch was smart. Hagler would have been pumped up and by that time less inactive. It might have given Marvin the motivation to have one last great win.

 

A most ridiculous notion. Green fighters dont make relative minced meat out of world rated opponents. Leonard had basically already CLEANED OUT Welterweight by the time he fought Duran: Mayweather, Muniz, Shields, Gant, Ranzany, Price, Green -- he scraped the plate against all of them. He even went up to 154 a couple times and beat up Chiaverini there. He'd already been under the bright lights at Caesar's Palace and bested another Great in Wilfred Benitez. This is why it's totally irrelevant how many "title defenses" he'd make. He was plenty ready and fought in Montreal in the exact manner he said he would and believed he held advantages doing. He won it back and Finished the job against Hearns. The #2 Welter of all-time easy, and only one man bested him when it mattered, hence Duran's top 10 standing.

 

Sorry bud, he's a lot better than Marvin Hagler even without the H2H win.

Pryor turned down the opportunity, and saved himself an embarrassment. He also had no recognition and no leverage: Take the fight or don't. He had no defense to speak of and would've been put out cold with five rounds. Curry is underrated, but short of Leonard's class. Nunn? Who gives a ****. Leonard isn't a Middleweight.

 

Ouch man you got me good. Apart from the fact I don't ever post in the general forum, its pretty amazing how much pride you take in being a poster in an online boxing forum. By your own grandiose self-assessment you are the preeminent expert on boxing and Duran. Good for you man. You can be the classic boxing forum warrior.

I'll stick to enjoying boxing for what it is, Boxing! Not records, or legacies, or accomplishments. "My fighter is better than your fighter". Just good fights.

 

Duran sucks period lol

 

So why is it nobody viewed him in this manner and why are you still ostensibly with a sore vay jay about it? Clinton, I like your tastes particularly with Duran and Sanchez, but this needs to stop. Leonard is and was an ATG before and with or without Marvin Hagler. You guys are on his ass like starving, slobbering hogs to slop. I think living through all of it actually compromises your ability to be objective in regards to the topic.


CHICAGO TRIBUNE
November 06, 1986

With obvious pride, promoter Bob Arum stepped before microphones and cameras Monday in New York to announce that arrangements had been completed for the ``fight of the century.``

Arum, a lawyer and former Internal Revenue Service agent, is smarter than that.

What he has in hand is the boxing hoax of the ages: Marvin Hagler vs. Sugar Ray Leonard, April 6 in Las Vegas.

It`s the best fighter in the world against a guy who was knocked down in his last fight five years ago and retired because he couldn`t, or wouldn`t, take it anymore.

Hagler will be paid $12 million for 12 rounds, or less, and Leonard will get $11 million. All of it is guaranteed money with promise of more.

No one, no event, in the long history of sports ever has produced such income. Hagler-Leonard, Arum says, could gross an unworldly $100 million.

Such is the appeal of a major fight. But it`s strange, because this doesn`t figure to be much of a fight at all.

We have yet to find a knowledgeable boxing man who gives Leonard, the former welterweight champion, any sort of chance against Hagler, the destructive middleweight champion.

Early odds in Las Vegas list Hagler as a 4-to-1 favorite, but this is merely an invitation to bettors. The odds will swing heavily upward in Hagler`s favor.

The problem with this fight is that it should have been scheduled five days earlier, on April Fools` Day.

For if ever there were an awful joke in championship sports, it`s Leonard vs. Hagler for the World Boxing Council middleweight title.

Two of the sport`s governing bodies have refused to sanction the fight. Normally more accommodating, the World Boxing Association insisted that the fight must be scheduled for 15 rounds, its standard. The International Boxing Federation nixed it because its rules bar fighters who have had eye retina damage (Leonard).


Lufcrazy was closer to reality.

I wouldn't put it past him, crazy ******* that he is. Still favorable to the dicks you do, but who are we to judge your lifestyle choices.

 

Really? U sure wouldnt it by his 36-3-1 record. You'd think he made 22 defenses of his titles

If he were better as u say, why would it take him 14 for Hearns and only 3 Hagler?

Both were top level fighters but next to Marvin, Sugar seemd like a piker. No offense

Being the fighter u say he is, why turn down the Pryor challenge? (50K offer is his way to save face)

being the fighter u say he is I would expect him to easily rid the ring of Terry Norris. I thought u said Sugar had all the answers but seems to me he couldnt figure him out in time. when he doesnt come up with the answers, u have to answer for him

Sugar just didnt have the goods and ate speed N leather all nite long!

Nunn? Pryor? Well, u could take the easy way out and just say "who gives a ****" or "he was a fighter of no reputation so he had no leverage"

but then u could say the same when it comes to Howard, lalonde, both of who got shots at him. or even Norris

excuses abound when it comes to explaining Sugar's career but at least we got to see SOMETHING out of him

 

Bob Arum was also heard saying "I think for the first time,Marvin Hagler is in real danger of losing a fight"

 

:huh

He beat as many world rated fighters in 30 months, as Hagler and Duran made title defenses over seven years a piece. He cleaned it the hell out, End Of. You really need an explanation as to why SRL's win over Hearns is greater and more significant than Hagler's? Try 32-0 (30 KO) at the weight, favored to win the fight and unification of the 147 division, something Leonard was going to do with Cuevas before Don King brought Roberto Duran up front. Cuevas is another uncleverly spun tale of revisionist history, surprisingly not yet mentioned in this thread.

It was 500K, and for what reason would Pryor not take the offer if he's starving and so sure of kicking Leonard's ass? He would've gained instant notoriety and fame... He accepted 700 a year later, and would've got his shot at Leonard if Ray beat No. 2 welterweight Roger Stafford. That fight never happened.

:happy

Being the blatant ducker he is, why would he fight a elite guy like Norris in 1991 at 34 years old to begin with? Leonard was clearly past-prime in 1987 - like Marvelous - so it's not at all surprsing he lost. His best at 154 was a decade prior to that fight. I don't rate anything post-Hagler either- not the farce against Lalonde, the gift draw with Hearns or the charade of "Uno Mas". I'm a DURAN guy first, don't get it twisted.

For several reasons stated above, as well as an initiative of rating a fighter based on what he did, not what he didn't do. Leonard did enough to be considered the #2 Welter Ever, before his first pro retirement. Beating an undefeated Kalule at 154 and long reigning MW great like Hagler (The No. 1 fighter on the planet) add to his 'P4P' standing.

Yeah, he had a fight to sell. Arum also couldn't comprehend why Trainer would allow SRL to fight a Kalule with The Showdown on the horizon, citing the Ugandan as "being too strong for him".

 

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Like who? U have 4 defenses altogether in his career

12 for Hagler

that's a 3:1 ratio

are u saying less is more?

beating Benitez, Duran, Hearns is impressive and a nice start to a career but not a career in itself. I like the guy. I really do but he just didnt do enough

and if u must know, it was Cuevas who really cleaned out most of the division

Hagler cleaned out his division by himself

BTW, Leonard had his choice of Benitez or Cuevas. let's not blame Don King for Leonard's decision making

Tommy Hearns u could compare with Joe Louis at the time. Undefeated but young & untested before the Schmeling fight. Looked good on paper but well, we saw what happened

We certainly would not say that Joe was at his peak on account of his unbeaten record. Even Joe himself wouldnt say that.

Tommy, sure he was unbeaten 31-0 but against WHO? pablo Baez? Luis Primera? Angel Espada?

been there done that!

nothing more than recycled veterans looking for that last payday

vs Hagler, Tommy came a long way in the learning process, adding more championships, fought three more champions, and with much needed muscle added. Bigger, stronger, faster, and believe me, BETTER

and Hagler still dusted him in three. That's 3 rds to leonard's 14 rds of throwing haymakers

which confirms my first impression of a side to side comparison of the two; he made Leonard seem like a piker

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so what? How much does Leonard get, 1 million then? This is nothing more than a way to get out of the fight and save face

I mean it's an okay excuse if you're a leonard fan & gullible

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that's not how I see it. logic sugests that if Leonard beat hagler WITh ring rust, & carrying extra weight, that he should now be able to handle a non entity like Norris without the rust and a weight that suits his frame better, especially considering his previous win 12/12 over Duran

remember, Leonard was the favorite

Side note: of course u dont rate anything post Hagler. he lost and lost badly plus the stench of the draw w Hearns,, so why would u?

I kno u types, u like clean cut victories for your guy. U dont want to have to acknowledge he couldnt beat Heans in a rematch

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No he didn't! those are YOUR reasons, most of which dont even ring true.

I really think that's an insult to champions like Armstrong, Napoles

and kalule? Anyone could have beaten him! ask Davey Moore

top 10 welter. maybe top 5

wins over Pryor & Curry and now we're talking

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who cares about KALULE? he didnt have any talent, just a willingness to fight. I didnt even have to see any of his previous fights to kno he was being brought in to lose. I cant believe some people actually believe all the hype

 

Leonard wouldn't fight Marvin in his prime...he had to wait until Hagler seemed to slip after the Mugabi fight...then...he wanted certain gloves...he wanted a certain ring size...he wanted a certain number of rounds...etc. Hagler...looking for the BIG payday..and knowing that if he didn't give in to SRL's demands...the fight would have never have come off.He should have said.."I'm the champ...**** you"...but he didn't..and we all know what happened...