Did Liston pull his punches when Clay was "blind"

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Longhhorn71, May 31, 2009.


  1. ThinBlack

    ThinBlack Boxing Addict banned

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    Nope, he was in their with a different breed.
     
  2. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    Sonny 'pulled his punches', the whole fight.
     
  3. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    Okay, Boggle. I've got you. ...I've got you.
     
  4. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Both fights were formally investigated. No evidence of a fix was found. The young up and coming great totally out sped and outboxed the much older and slower champion. Been done all through boxing history. Nothing new.
     
  5. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Maybe Sonny Liston was just utter ****.
    He had a blind, scared, panicky opponent who even when fully-sighted had been put down by Henry Cooper.
    Sonny had a couple of minutes to kill this sightless young man and he failed to even knock him down.
     
  6. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He also was beaten to a pulp over the first 4 rounds. Maybe not very fresh to hit anyone at that point in time.
     
  7. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Beaten to a pulp ?
    I'm not sure what fight you were watching.
    Maybe stung briefly and cut in round 3, certainly not beaten to a pulp over 4 rounds.
     
  8. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    In my opinion,the only thing that "smells" about this fight is that some simply can't believe the obvious !! Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali trounced Sonny Liston !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  9. groove

    groove Well-Known Member Full Member

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    "clay is unmarked. liston has his left eye swollen shut, his right eye is cut. liston's eyes, looks like he's been in a meat grinder, both eyes are cut."

    [yt]r3x9_WpDHmY[/yt]
     
  10. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    Sonny's performance was 'perfect'.

    Loved the way he would pull his punches, and missed with perfection.

    Those 'fake hard' body punches in Round 5, I was laughing so hard, I
    had to go the hospital.
     
  11. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The fight was formally investigated and no evidence of a fix was found. You don't take that kind of beating in a fight that is fixed...broken nose, sliced cheekbone, eye nearly swollen shut and a fracture of an eye orbital.
     
  12. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    You're saying Liston's nose and eye socket were broken ?
     
  13. groove

    groove Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ali vs. Liston 2: What Really Happened?

    Lou Eisen

    Excerpt:
    Liston left Miami for his home in Denver, after the fight without his title, his money and his sense of self worth. When he arrived home, he looked in the mirror and what he saw disturbed him greatly. Liston had sustained a broken nose, a busted left cheekbone and a hairline fracture of his left orbital bone. When you add a damaged left shoulder into the mix, Liston must have thought that was a lot of punishment to take for a measly $13 grand.

    One can well imagine what went through Liston’s mind once the rematch was set up. No doubt he thought, “Why take more punishment for another $13,000 grand?” In Liston’s mind, it just wasn’t worth it. Or was it? Liston truly enjoyed being the world heavyweight champion and all of the requisite perks that went with it. He loved being recognized as the champ.

    For the rematch, Liston trained like a demon every day, seven days a week. He was fiercely determined to get his title back. He pushed himself to the absolute limit of his physical abilities every day. He neither smoked nor drank while in training, a rarity for him. Come fight time, Liston was in the best shape of his entire career. His reflexes were perfectly honed and ready to spring like a steel trap. Liston felt that he was so close to regaining his title and self-respect that he could almost taste the glory. Then disaster struck.

    During the last week of training camp for the rematch, the newly named Muhammad Ali collapsed in the gym with a ruptured hernia. He was rushed to the hospital where emergency surgery was performed to repair the hernia. The fight was postponed for six months. With the delay of the match, Liston became very depressed and began to drink and smoke in copious amounts. He never trained for the rematch again. He had given up on himself.

    http://fightnetwork.com/news/33385:ali-vs.-liston-2-what-really-happened/

    Another excerpt:
    When all of these disparate factors are added together, it makes perfect sense to think that Liston took a dive. However, as convincing as all of the above factors can be, they are refuted by one thing – the film of the fight.

    Liston did get hit a legitimate shot squarely on the point of his chin and he hit the canvas in a heap. The series of moves Ali used to KO Liston were designed by Angelo Dundee and Ali used them many times throughout his illustrious career to KO such fighters as Zora Folley, Cleveland Williams, Brian London, Karl Mildenberger, and George Foreman. Watch the films of those fights and you will see Ali do the same three things over and over again.

    Angelo called it, “Slip, slide and bang!” Liston made a beginner’s mistake that led to his own downfall. Liston lunged with his left jab. As anyone in boxing can tell you, whenever a fighter lunges, he is off-balance and highly susceptible to getting knocked out with a quick counter punch. When you watch the film, you see that Liston’s head is out over his front foot, which means that he was dangerously off-balance and wide open to a quick, powerful counter right hand. Ali slipped Liston’s jab, slid to his right maybe three inches to create an angle, and then threw the now famous picture perfect counter right hand to end the fight. Liston was off balance and took the whole brunt of the shot on his chin. He was down for more than ten seconds. Whatever happened after that is prologue.

    Liston said years later, “I was off balance and he caught me with a stiff right hand. It rattled me. My head really hurt. It was a good shot.” Liston was mortal after all. Upon entering the ring that night, Liston was cheered vociferously by the crowd in attendance while Ali was booed with equal ferocity. It was the first and sadly, the last time Liston was ever cheered during a fight.

    The film clip shows it all. When Liston finally did rise, Ali jumped on him, landing dozens of punches prior to Walcott stopping the fight. Even if Walcott had not stopped the fight, Liston would never have made it out of the first round. The knockout was genuine. Both men never faced each other again in the ring. They are however, forever linked, by their two title fights together, both of which ended in controversy.
     
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  14. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Are we to believe that Ali broke Liston's nose and eye socket in Miami ?
     
  15. groove

    groove Well-Known Member Full Member

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    who cares ali had no marks on him compared to liston. did you listen to the 3rd round radio commentary?