Top 13 h2h heavyweights in history

In a gut to gut contest Wladimir certainly beats Mike Tyson.

Even his own brother gave up after his loss against Brewster.
Nobody believed he could still be in and yet he climbed back up.

Then again Chuvalo beats Wlad too who lost 2 sons by drug overdoses, another one by suicide and his wife by suicide... (in a g2g contest)

 

Longevity means nothing if you haven't been tested. Wlad has fought nobody in his whole life that comes close to Tyson.

 

Again, if you read my list, I picked Tyson very high and above Wlad in a head to head sense.

But it's a lot closer than you are suggesting. You do not dominate 7 or so years in the division by accident, something that not even Tyson could accomplish. And FYI, Vitali has admitted he doesn't have his bro's number.

 

1. Lennox Lewis
2. Joe Louis
3. Muhmmad Ali
4. Mike Tyson
5. George Foreman
6. Sonny Liston
7. Riddick Bowe
8. Wladimir Klitschko
9. Larry Holmes
10. Vitali Klitschko
11. Joe Frazier
12. Evander Holyfield

 

Longevity, when it is active longevity, actually does mean something. Almost by definition it means you have faced a larger variety of opponents with variants the lay observer (which is what the vast majority of us are) can not appreciate. It also means you have more rounds, more minutes, in front of large, world class fighters in a division that is known for matters being ended with a single punch.

Meanwhile, Tyson did fight someone who was a bit like a poor man's Wlad, a tall, big strong guy with a great jab and a stiff right hand... Buster Douglas.

 

Nobody praises James Toney for all the nobody's he used to fight each year. Wlad could take 5-6 no risk fights a year and it wouldn't impress me. He isn't fighting the no.1 , 2s or 3s in the division and that is what matters.

Tyson was spiralling out of control when he faced Douglas. You know enough about that.

 

Yes, because none of these title defenses were highly ranked...

Hade
Chagaev
Brock
Eddie Chambers
Sultan Ibragimov
Chris Byrd
Sam Peter
Tony Thompson

 

Highly ranked by who, the sanctioning bodies? 3 are CWs and the rest have done nothing.

 

everyone of these guys have had trouble with certain fighters,

Lewis got starched 2X by good right hand punchers (not remarkable punchers) and Lennox only had a total of 43 fights (very good competition but could be argued that his best opponents were past prime) Lewis also never KO'd a man after 8rounds so I find him vulnerable to the 15 round fighters and the punchers especially those with stamina

Holmes went down by guys that were proven easily overcome, Shavers who had Cobb,Mercado,Lyle,Stander and others down or in trouble before being overcome not to mention being dominated by Quarry and 20-25 trial horse Bob Stallings, another guy to put Holmes down hard was Renaldo Snipes who got dropped 2X vs Coetzee and had King steal the decision to get a title shot instead of Coetzee (which almost backfired) From the HOLMES FIGHT ON THE 22 FIGHT SNIPES ONLY WON 1 OF HIS NEXT 7 FIGHTS...When Holmes took on a different level of class although past it (Spinks in his 1st Heavyweight fight) and Tyson he was beaten



Foreman had stamina problems and was beaten by Ali and Young and almost Lyle (leads you to believe he would have lost more had he upped his level of opposition

Tyson only once KO'd a man after 8 rounds (Jose Ribalta TKO) and had severe mental issues and quit more than once...A great early starter but how does he do against someone that does not fear him (Douglas,Evander,Williams,McBride,Lewis)


Liston (level of opposition poor other than Patterson and Machen) Quit or got blasted by Ali and Flat Ko'd by a somewhat decent puncher (when older) in Leotis Martin (who weighed under 200lbs..I think you need more than a win over Cleveland Williams to be a head to head king or we may have to bring in Bob Satterfield

Ali adapted well to the big slow guys but was troubled by the smaller better conditioned men like Doug Jones, Henry Cooper, Frazier, Leon Spinks, Patterson

I have trouble with these head to head match ups because all fighters are vulnerable to a style

 

Yea, people like to think ATGs are very apart in distance of each other while they're all very close.
Being elite and non elite is just a very small line.

It just takes a very small amount of being extra good to be an ATG, but that last bit of being better means the most.

 

Then again, Ali and all the previous hw champs, Holmes and Tyson also beat cruisers.

 

Of the 3 that are "cruiserweights", 2 held a belt at heavyweight, and the third was top rated in 2 organizations. Sam Peter = WBC Heavyweight Champ. Sultan Ibragimov = WBO Heavyweight Champ. Calvin Brock #1 rated IBF Heavyweight. Ruslan Chavaev = WBA Heavyweight Champ. David Haye = WBA Heavyweight Champ. Chris Byrd = WBO/IBF Heavyweight Champ. Lamon Brewster = WBO Champion.

So, Wlad tore through a group of champs and former champs in the slintered title era. Sound familiar? Perhaps typical of the accomplishments of the crowd that Tyson drove through during the late-80's?

And if "cruiserweights" are a detriment to a heavyweight's record, let's re-examine the legacy of Louis, Johnson, Dempsey, Marciano...

 

Somebody had to hold those belts. Its means nothing. In terms of boxing skill and technique , the HW division is not what it used it be.

Byrd , Chambers and Haye left no mark in the HW scene that will be remembered.

 

Byrd is very skilled, and Haye has brute power for his weight (might be due to his style too)
If people compare Haye his power to Wlad to be somewhat equal and sparring partners regulary say Wlad hit them the hardest ever that means atleast one very big thing.