Who would you rate higher : Tim Witherspoon or Jim Jeffries ?

He certainly deserves a mention.

 

There are photos of Childs , he was very well developed, big shoulders chest, and bulging biceps, compared to Choynski ,and Fitz ,he was Mike Weaver. We are talking 1900 and on when Corbett challenged Jeffries , not the 1890's
The promoter of the Johnson/ Martin contest,McCarey challenged Jeffries to meet the winner for a $15 ,000 guarantee . A backer for Sam McVey offered $18,000 for Jeffries to defend against him, I've posted these before.


Oh I see Childs had many more fights but Jeffries was of course a novice in his career , every time someone is matched hypothetically with Jeffries we get the same BS, he was a babe in arms, and they had all many more contests than are recorded.
For the record Jeffries had the same amount of fights as Corbett when they met.
People drivel on about how Jeffries was green when he met fighters.
Lorraine
Long
Van Buskirk
Baker
Ruhlin were all novices too.

Goddard was 40 years old.
Armstrong had 19 fights to Jeffries 11 Huge experience gap.
Finnegan 10 to his 14
Munro 13 to his 21
Finnegan 10 to his 17.

 

Just rewatched Holmes v spoon.

Can't believe I ever found 7 rounds for Larry before. Spoon beats him at pretty much every juncture he outjabs him outpunches him, outdefends him and basically proved his superiority over 12 rounds.

It's not a huge stretch to say he was the best in the world at this point until he lost to Thomas who lost to berbick who lost to the youngest champ in he history.

 

I was just looking at full figure phots of Childs taken in 1900. The writer describes him as 5'9 and 165. That is about what he looks like, given a height of 5' 9".

I don't dispute that Jeffries should have fought Jack Johnson between 1903 and 1905 and deserves to be criticized for not fighting him.

I also think Jeffries probably had fights, perhaps quite a few fights, early in his career which do not appear on his record. I agree with you that perhaps too much is made of how green Jeff was.

That said, he did beat the top men up to about 1903. No one beats absolutely everyone but Childs as a 165 lber seems an unlikely candidate to be put in against the huge champion, especially as he had not beaten a really top heavyweight. This is no criticism of Childs. At his size, he did well to beat some second tier guys.

I stick with my belief was that not only was Corbett at the time seen as a logical contender, but because of his size and skill, he looks in restrospect as a proper opponent for Jeff.

I think Jeff would have recieved a ton more criticism if he had not faced Corbett but had instead fought Childs.

The article I just read listed these sizes

Childs 5' 9" 165 lbs
Joe Butler 6' 170 lbs
George Byers 5' 8" 150 lbs

 

I have never found any media interest in a match between Jeffries and Childs. There was plenty of interest in matching him with Martin, but none with Childs or Byers.

 

"Greatness" is nothing, H2H is everything.

 

I keep thinking back to this thread.

Spoon probably has the greatest performance out of these two as well as the worst.

It's a shame coz looking at the time line the division was there for the taking.

The loss to smith hurts him but the loss to Thomas is bad also. Jeffries fought in a weaker division but atleast he remained head and shoulders above his peers.

 

In terms of skill level, spoon actually has a better resume than jeffries.

 

Seven months before Jeffries beat Armstrong by 10rds decision Childs had kod Armstrong in 2 rds.

Why did Jeffries not fight Childs instead of Armstrong?

 

Jeffries was world hwt champion and was rated and by some still is rated as one of the greatest fighters ever to live. Witherspoon was never worlds champion and you would need to be blind to rate him great at anything. It's not in any way a fair comparison. Better to compare spoon to Lou Nova or Buddy Baer in reality.

 

Spoon was two times world champ actually.

He put on a better filmed performance than Jeffries ever did.

He beat better skilled opponents than Jeffries ever did also.

The comparison is obscure but valid.

 

For legacy I have to go with Jeffries.

 

I agree completely.

I rate Jeffries inside my top 20 and the same can't be said for spoon. I just felt houdinis criticism was weak.

Jeffries ruled an era and he beat the hof men who fought in that era. He was very highly regarded in his prime and his legacy is secure.