How long until Ward's resume eclipses Calzaghe's?

Only a fanboi would argue belts. No one else gives a ****. Unless you think Mayweather is unworthy because he doesn't hold a major belt. Who cares?

 

Because they would mark another win over a world class opponent. I agree he needs to fight outside the States, though, so perhaps Froch II could happen in England. Fair is fair.

Disagree on Hopkins. He was in his 40s and fighting two divisions above his legacy weight. He was a danger there, but far declined from his best days.

 

It's fanboy, not fanboi. Who mentioned Mayweather? I thought this was a discussion, not an argument.

Yes by the way, belts are important in terms of boxing legacy. Belts are what people fight for. So yes, I will use them in my answer.

 

The headlines are that Calzaghe has a 'w' over Hopkins which is better than anything on Ward's record. Best win is what - Kessler? Calzaghe beat the better version. Abraham is no better or worse than guys like Mitchell, Brewer - in fact at least they were proven at the weight. I can't honestly rate Dawson right now, I go back and forth on him. Time will tell, but Calzaghe as of right now has achieved more and just about has a better record, marginally, and probably not for long though.

 

Disagree on Hopkins. He was in his 40s and fighting two divisions above his legacy weight. He was a danger there, but far declined from his best days.[/QUOTE]

Then why did he win two world titles at that weight? No past his best fighter who was fighting two weights divisions over what he should be could have schooled Pascal the way Hopkins did. Twice. Hopkins is still one the best fighters in the sport even now at his age and Calzaghe beat him.

 

He went on to dominate Pavlik, beat Pascal (twice imo) and displayed excellent defense against Dawson. Of course he was past his prime but Hopkins was still an elite fighter.

 

Fanboi works just as well, actually. I used it intentionally. ...

Belts are not important. Competition is important. That's why I mentioned Mayweather — does he harm his legacy by not attempting to unify? That's absurd and you know it. The belts follow a path of politics and corruption. Also, whom should Ward pursue for a belt? Can you find someone he hasn't already beaten? Silly.

 

Hopkins was a very good win, but his name was bigger than his ability by then. He hasn't been able to fight consistently in a decade. Prime Hopkins would have schooled Pascal; those fights would not have been competitive.

 

There was nothing excellent about Hopkins versus Dawson. He was negative and lost a wide decision. He got hit way too much by a limited guy in Pascal, the kind of fighter he dominated and stopped in his prime at 160.

He fought negatively against Calzaghe, too, including the embarrassing fake low blow antics. Same thing in the Jones rematch. The prime Hopkins wasn't even around in 2005 against Taylor — three years prior to Calzaghe.

Still a very good win for JC, but not superior to Froch.

 

I never said anything about Mayweather's legacy. Of course at this point in his career he doesn't have to win any belts to prove how good he is, he did years ago though like every up and coming fighter. If Mayweather didn't win a world title belt in his career do you honestly think he'd be a famous or respected as he is now?

You build a legacy in boxing by winning titles. Just like in other sports. Ward needs to win more world titles if he wants people to remember him like Calzaghe is remembered, regardless of the opponents he's fought. Like I said, Carl Froch has fought WAY better fighters than Calzaghe did but his legacy isn't quite considered as good as Calzaghe's, here in Britain anyway where they're both from. Maybe it's different in the States, I don't know.

 

Hopkins was 45/46 when he fought Pascal and Dawson. Of course he's going to get hit with shots he would not have been hit with in his prime. But his skill level was off the charts and he worked with whatever physical tools he had left and was without a doubt still an elite fighter. His wins over Pascal and Pavlik prove this.

 

Mayweather's legacy is based on his performances. Most people couldn't tell you what belts he held, or when. No one cares.

Also, Calzaghe can be argued over Froch because Froch has lost a couple fights and looked extremely vulnerable versus Taylor.

You seem to believe that Ward should seek out an Abraham rematch just to win the WBO strap. Doesn't that seem ridiculous to you? And I'd love to see a Froch rematch in Europe, but if they decide not to pay the sanctioning fee for the IBF, would the fight be any less important?

Ward has cleaned out 168, which functionally is the same as being undisputed. There isn't a single opponent in that weight range who'd be given any better than 3-1 odds of beating him, and that might be generous. Dawson was perceived to be the most dangerous opponent he could face, and now he's reduced to fighting a shot Pavlik.

What else is there for him to do? If the rematches don't pan out or Chavez doesn't materialize, he'll be forced to move up.

 

I get where you're coming from, because Froch is a championship-level fighter in his prime and with strong performances before and after Ward beat him relatively easily, but...the skill-set of Hopkins at 43 was still considerably better than anything Froch possesses. The closeness of Calzaghe's 'W' and Hopkins's past-prime status maybe make that comparison debatable, but I'd still classify Calzaghe's 'W' over Hopkins as more significant and celebrated that Ward victory over Froch.

 

He was a world class opponent for Calzaghe to face — I said that up front — but he certainly is not better a better win than Froch or Kessler. He had some good performances (Tarver, Pavlik), but he stunk out the joint against Calzaghe just like Dawson did against Ward.

Post-Calzaghe, Hopkins has the stirring Pavlik win, dreadful Jones victory, even fights versus Pascal and dreadful Dawson NC/loss. Prior to JC you had another great win (Tarver) and poor outings versus Taylor. He hasn't been consistently great in a decade.

 

He already does, clearly and easily.