How could anyone NOT consider Roy Jones Jr to be the P4P GOAT?

interesting point, i always figured his brain was just going faster than his body and he never adjusted.

 

first and only, beating ruiz is not winning the title, it was an irrelevant belt, you can tell this because ruiz had it to begin with.

i watched that within a month, awful fight, ruiz was stupider, and more passive, than hagler v leonard

 

The best to ever lace them up in my view and maybe the most dominant run in boxing history? His resume isn't the best but it's probably the most underrated resume in boxing history, at least on this board. I mean were Sugar Ray's opponents actually better than Jones? SRR never beat anyone as good as Hopkins or Toney that's for sure.

People who say his resume isn't the best (which it isn't) happily rate others with weak resumes in their top10 P4P lists and pretend they have some great resumes. Then you have others rating boxers in semi-pro eras in their top10

The thing about Roy Jones is his detractors have perpetuated myths about his resume that even objective posters now parrot. They claim he ducked worse fighters than he actually beat. Yet when the likes of Henry Armstrong and Robinson did avoid better fighters than he beat, Charles Burley for one.

If Robinson has a case for being GOAT as much as Robinson does

 

Easy, because he isn't!!!

 

Laughable and it shows your ignorance of Lamotta. He isn't nearly as good as the Hopkins or Toney Jones beat, Lamotta while good just wasn't close to that level and his record clearly indicates that.

'He'd lose to the murderer's row fighters' -Lloyd Marshall after beating Lamotta.

How well did he do against the other Row fighters?

Lytell - gets what is generally considered a gift decision over a Lytell with only 24 fights

Holman Williams - gets the decision controversially over a 34yo Holman with 177 fights

Satterfield - decent win over the whipping boy of the Row


Did he dominate the best none Row fighters?


Villemain - 1-1 although his win is very controversial

Dauthuille - a fringe contender, Lamotta goes 1-1 against and would have lost the rematch if it wasn't for a come from behind KO in the final round

Basora - goes 2-1 against him, good wins

Cerdan - great fighter but 1 armed from the first round

Yarosz - their are suggestions this is a controversial fight

Zivic - wins the series 3-1, 2 of his wins coming by SDs against a significantly smaller man

So you're picking him to beat Hopkins and Toney on the above form? Toney who thrives on pressure and Hopkins much the same, who also could happily match his workrate? Both being more skilled, faster, better defensively. You favour Lamotta to have success against Toney given he was stopped twice when he stepped up against LHWs against Murphy and Nardico? As a bookie would you seriously make Lamotta favourite over those 2?

Do you think all the above men who beat or went to controversial decisions with Lamotta beat Toney and Hopkins too? I doubt you do, but Lamotta with the benefit of his career not been as closely scrutinised as modern fighters gets a pass for his losses and controversial fights.

 

I think singling out La Motta to argue Jones is the greatest is just totally off target, LaMotta is slightly overated, but a great none-the-less...

RJJ the bigger man comparing with the Moore's & Charles' & Marshall's and Lougran's, THESE are his great forerunners and he would be found wanting, in a big way... the same schedual and level of opposition, his chin would have been checked long before 50 fights nevermind 150!!!

 

Pp Ray also beat Kid Gavilan (twice) whom almost everybody would rate over Hopkins and Toney.

 

Your wording seems like a trolling post, but for the most part Yes, Roy jones a G.O.A.T.

 

Prime la motta would beat Toney. He just couldn't handle the pressure.

Anyways in terms of ability he's in the top 3 of history for me.

 

Somewhat yes, yet got slower and not as fit

Lamotta was a top 15 in HW history now? It seems while correcting my post you forgot to overlook your own

I think by putting it under the microscope I've shown his 'top 15 MW of all time' status is probably not justified, certainly not in terms of his actual head to head ability. Let alone that lofty heayweight status

Anyway you mean a boxer who was only as experienced as the Lytell that seemingly beat Lamotta? Or the Top15 MWs like Villemain, Dauthuille, Basora and Zivic? Do we not think Hopkins was a tad bit better than them?

You mean like Lamotta was weight drained, it's an excuse, most fighters are drained and fight, it's called being a Pro

If Toney was the most drained for his biggest career fight, maybe it was because he didn't give himself a chance against a man who was knocking out men in a round that he himself couldn't stop?

You mean like a Robinson he had 17lbs on? ATG Middleweight win there :nono

Anyway no Lamotta doesn't have any MW scalp that's better than McCallum if you had that fight to Toney or Nunn if you didn't

He wasn't on a 'Murderer's Row schedule', he fought 4 of them 1 prime, 1 old, 1 green, 1 whipping boy and on a fair scorecard probably went 2-2 against them. That is not the level of a 'top 15 of all time performance' surely

I'm guessing you don't rate Robinson's win over Gavilan based on your own logic? Robinson can't rate very highly on your P4P list

How about what Hopkins did after Jones dominated him with 1 hand? Oh yeah dominated the middleweight division for 12 years not losing again for arguably 19 years. Strangely enough he doesn't want to fight Jones again. Strange that isn't it for a fighter who suddenly learnt how to box in 1997 and obviously became quicker and fitter after the age of 30?

Picking Lamotta over Hopkins and Toney is certainly a stance the bookies wouldn't be taking with his form against highly skilled boxers the same size as him

You're stooping to using your mod powers to delete posts owning you now?

His best win no doubt, but does he rate over Hopkins career wise, I don't think he does, McGrain apparently doesn't rate this win

It's the issue of comparing resumes, Jones seems to be the only fighter who gets losses when he was shot held against him. Where as people overlook the likes of Archie Moore being ko'd several times in his prime