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Put tyson where Ali is imo. He wasnt just a 4 round fighter in his prime. Prime is when a fighter should be looked at h2h
He wasn't just a four round fighter at his best, but his game changed considerably if you made it out of those rounds. I'd give him a shot against anyone at his best, but I think the fighters above him were just better suited overall against more styles even though I'd pock Mike over at least 1 of them h2h.
Find one of frankenfranks lists, I thinl he may have McCall #1. Here we go. I was wrong, he has him #2! (S)HW : 1. Nicolay Valuev 2. Oliver McCall 3. George Foreman 4. Vitali Wladimirovich Klitschko 5. David Tua 6. Tony Tucker 7. Mike Tyson 8. Evander Holyfield 9. Lennox Lewis 10. Riddick Bowe 11. Ike Ibeabuchi 12. Lamon Brewster 13. Ross Puritty 14. Wladimir Klitschko 15. Joe Frazier 16. Muhammad Ali 17. James Douglas 18. James Smith 19. Joe Louis 20. Chris Byrd 21. Larry Holmes 22. Henry Akinwande 23. Jameel McCline 24. Sultanakhmed Ibragimov 25. Frank Bruno 26. Charles Liston 27. Rocco Marchegiano 28. Dominick Guinn 29. Joe Mesi 30. George Chuvalo 31. Bob Cleroux 32. Micahel Grant 33. Orlin Norris 34. Jesse Fergusson 35. Bert Cooper 36. Ray Mercer 37. Luan Krasniqi 38. Lance Whitaker 39. Lou Savarese 40. Oleg Maskaev 41. Hasim Rahman 42. Corrie Sanders
I love Louis, he's the greatest heavyweight ever in my opinion. But h2h he has some *****s in his armor that in my opinion may not allow him to be as successful as those I ranked ahead of him. This doesn't mean I don't think he could be any fighter in history, just that his style might not always match up so well.
Probably because he destroyed almost everyone he fought and has arguably the best jab in heavyweight history. Most people who question Liston have only seen his fights with Ali. The guy was a beast.
I disagree greatly here. Johnson proved to be one of if not the best HW through his time and employed a defense which was superb and well ahead of his day. In a H2H sense, no one before or after until Joe Louis would be close to a favorite over Johnson, in my opinion. So, obviously I think highly of him. He beat McVea X3, Langford in their only fight, and had several dramas with a young Jeannette with Johnson taking the best of it. These three are the fellow "elite black HW's" of their time, in an era where the black HW's only fought each other, yet were the best HW's in the world. --- Vitali Klitschko should certainly be on this list. Nevermind... didn't see him somehow. That said, no Marciano? And no Harry Wills? Or Jack Dempsey? Or Jeffries? I guess you have an extreme dislike for era's of old when regarding H2H. Not saying all these guys should be in the top 12, but........ And Holyfield makes the list?!?!
I didn't give much thought past 12, but Rocky falls off significantly in my opinion compared to his all time ranking. He would give trouble to some in the top 12 and be slaughtered by others in my opinion. While I don't buy into the myth of size advantages, the Rock got hit to much and wasn't a technician like Louis or with the great head movement of Frazier. Im just hazarding a guess, but I'd say he would probably rank between 15 and 20 but would have to really put mor thought into it.
I rate Johnson very highly all time. My list isn't perfect and I just tried to do some comparitive thinking based on what I've seen from each fighter. Neither Marciano or Dempsey maky MY top 10. I suppose arguments can be made for Wills, but I haven't watched enough of him (though I've read plenty) bto rank him above the guys I have. Jeff would have a strong case in my opinion but again there is a lack of clear footage and he had such a short career its difficult to say how it would have panned out had he had to fight Johnson sooner and other top black fighters. Im interested in see the lists of others though if anyone is willing to post them. No wrong answers here, only opinion.
1. Lewis 2. Vladimir 3. Vitali 4. Holyfield 5. Tyson 6. Holmes 7. Ali 8. Foreman 9. Liston 10. Joe Louis