Sonny Liston vs. George Foreman

2nd career foreman wasn't a weight drained wild puncher.
He became a skilled boxer puncher, conditioning isn't about looking like a body builder on the contrary both Haye and Bruno had pretty bad stamina.

foreman in his first career was below his "optimal fighting weight" because his trainer thought that extreme weight draining would do his stamina good. (It isn't and too much weight draining is the reason lower division have much more deaths than the hw division)

Though the use of weight draining in lower division is because of other reasons than increasing stamina. (which it doesn't)

 

A young Foreman once sparred with Liston, and said he was bothered because his punches did not hurt Liston. While both George and Sonny could hit a ton, Liston to me had better skills on offense and defense, and much better stamina. This essentially means Foreman best chance to win is early. I like Liston here 70/30.

 

It's just that in watching liston fight I see no performance indicating he could handle George.

 

I personally think 2nd career foreman might do much better than the first one.
He was more skilled, had more stamina and a better chin.

I'm sure Liston can hurt 1st career foreman with relatively ease.
Between two very good guys normally the bigger man has the advantage and foreman is the bigger guy but foreman with Saddler in his corner would be dehydrated which hurt his stamina, chin and because he didn't rehydrate back before the fight most likely his punching power too.

2nd career foreman would do so much better because not only was the dehydration gone but also he had become a skilled guy.

But the TS didn't ask that question.

In my eyes the main advantage Liston has is that 1st career foreman would be dehydrated, besides being more skilled.
foreman his main advantage is his power, his power was also not really a "snappy" kind of power but more the "pushing" kind that ****s up your balance.

Edit again: (silly me)
I forgot to add that foreman was very skilled at cutting of the ring.
I doubt Liston fight would have very loose ropes.

 

No why the hell would Liston try to out punch him when he can out box him, when Liston fought heavy punchers he always boxed them, Cleveland Williams for example your talking out of your ass man, and Liston did take the best punches from Foreman in sparring Foreman said it himself, and then Liston stood up to him and was the only man to push George around the ring and this was a post Ali Liston an old Liston vs a young George just keep quite now

 

He did handle George though in sparring i've already said that atsch and George even said it aswell how many times do i have to repeat myself

 

Foreman says many things. Foreman is more powerful than Liston.
Liston wasn't in the ring with the George Foreman of years later.
That Foreman would knock Liston out.

 

Foreman says many things yes but when HE says that there was only ONE man to push him around the ring that there was only one man to ever stand up to him in the ring i sit and listen cause he's not making up some bull****, and c'mon you think it matters that much if Foreman progressed a few years it was a young George against an old Liston and Liston took all his punches and didn't back away.... Why can you not just see atsch

 

It dosen't even matter that much, it wont come down to who's stronger because Foreman had trouble with good boxers and Liston was a great boxer Ali said Liston was the most technical boxer he fought..., Liston had power and boxing skills and a chin to go with that.

 

Oh right sparring is king now. I assume you favour Greb over Dempsey and Mccall over Tyson also?

Repeat yourself all you want though, won't change that foreman > liston.

 

Right! McCall dropped Tyson in sparring once If I remember.

Foreman will beat Liston. Foreman TKO5 Liston

 

The thing is that you don't understand that styles make fights.

Frazier and Norton were limited fighters and Foreman was able to take advantage of that. Frazier could really only fight one way and Foreman threw a complete wrench in his machine with his shoving tactics. Once hurt, Frazier couldn't adjust and just kept walking into shots. Norton had a weak brittle chin and poor survival skills. Nothing about those fights indicates that Foreman would walk through Liston. Foreman was a bum technically speaking and couldn't walk through Peralta in two fights. He couldn't walk through Jimmy Young and nearly got stopped by Ron Lyle.

Foreman wouldn't be able to ragdoll Liston the way he did to Frazier and push him around. Liston would be sticking the jab and with his subpar defense, Foreman would be getting hit. I see Foreman walking into punches and getting broken down. I see Liston making him pay for his sloppiness and elementary mistakes. Foreman has a chance at a early knockout but even that rapidly fades with Foreman's bad stamina. Liston could win a decision but I think he stops Foreman within about 8, maybe much earlier depending on how aggressive Foreman is.

 

Liston's straighter punching should trouble Foreman. What's funny is that Liston is perceived to have the superior stamina but this is most likely myth. Foreman over-exerted himself quite often fighting at a ridiculous work-rate in terrible heat. Not to mention not ad******g to the climate and some of the draining Sadler forced on him. Liston often fought at his own pace, a very comfortable pace. He paced and thus never looked so foolish. He was always the more stout, muscle-bound looking guy in my view, which is more oxygen-taxing. What had him in an interesting fight with Williams with the power & speed but also the activity that Williams came to go guns blazing.

Everyone stresses Ali as the nightmare style because speed speed speed and reflexes. It wasn't merely speed. It was also a work-rate that Liston couldn't keep up with (And couldn't even catch up with). I think Foreman would push a pace too uncomfortable which would wear on Liston physically and mentally. Liston is certainly an incredibly puncher, maybe even superior than Foreman in terms of power and technique so he is certainly capable of knocking Foreman out in the process. Foreman's jab is potentially something to be overlooked and underrated. It's not as good as Liston's, nor post-comeback Foreman's jab but it's a strong flick. Watching young Foreman it was clear how impressionable Ali was on his mentality/style. Foreman would try to dance and jab and would look so heavy and awkward but he was a decent enough athlete to do it. Liston was ponderous and lead-footed. Another potential downfall if he can't get into a good enough boxer-puncher groove.

60/40 odds in favor for Foreman IMHO.

 

lol Foreman is going to turn into Ali with the jab against Liston, huh? Nah. Liston had trouble with Ali not so much because of the pace but because he couldn't land meaningful shots and was getting hit with fast hands. Foreman trying to "up the pace" is just going to get him knocked out quicker. Liston would be able land the whole assortment on Foreman, jabs, left hooks, right hands, and Foreman's isn't going to be able to do anything about it. What's he going to do? Jump inside? Foreman was borderline garbage inside. His only to chance to win is with a wide hook from mid-long range in the early rounds. Liston's punches will stop Foreman in his tracks, just like Peralta's did, actually much worse than that.