Is this for me? When Jackson fought Smith the fight was just billed as an ordinary contest. Jackson claimed the Empire title after Smith was dsq'd in the 2nd rd for back heeling and tripping Jackson. Jackson ,when he beat Smith was the Coloured Champion thats all, he had not beaten Goddard, or Slavin at that point, and so could not reasonably claim to be the Australian Champion. Jackson never fought Mitchell who had some claims to be the" British Champion", .Smith could claim to be the bareknuckle champion of England when he avenged a loss to Ted Pritchard in 1895 but this was 5 years after he lost to Jackson. A lot boils down to how much credence you give some of these claims. I could claim to be the "Over 63 Bareknuckle Champion Of England," would that make it so? See correction to this in my later post. Thanks to Boilermaker:good
Admittedly, I'm a bit unfamiliar with the era. My limited understanding is that Peter Jackson was at some point regarded as the best fighter in the world, apart from perhaps J.L. Sullivan, an American, who was regarded as world's champion .... so, i doubt it would have ruffled too many people's feathers if Jackson had claimed to be champion of the British Empire.
Smith was regarded as the champion of England as the result of his drawn bout with Greenfield in 1886. At least such was the opinion of American writers around the time he fought Jackson. He didn't lose the title (or rather his claim of it), because Jackson couldn't claim English title.
If the historical record doesn't show much interest in the title at that time, or any billed title fights or explicit challenges for it, or much fanfare surrounding the claim, then NO there was no real kudos. This is news to me though. Seeing as only a few years earlier 'English' and 'American' titles (or claims of world titles) were so important in the development of the lineage, and that Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders were also producing fighters who travelled the globe and competed against growing American dominance, it's a little suprising that there wasn't more emphasis on an 'Empire' champion yet.
I think you have completely missed the mark with this last comment. Jackson was the australian champion by virtue of his victory over teh Australian Champion Tom Lees. It is up to the others - Slavin and Goddard to fight Jackson, before he loses that title, not the other way around. If you think otherwise, then you would really have to credit Jackson ahead of Sullivan as world champion. It is a two edged sword. You could claim the over 63 title, but dont claim too loud, or else Burt Bienstock and a few others might go on the warpath
Greenfield had claimed the title after a bare knuckle bout in 1880, and,since Greenfield retired after drawing with Smith, Smith should have fought the next best challenger for the title , but he did not. Smith beat Jack Wannop in a bout for no title in 1889 then fought Ted Pritchard in Wannop's gym in a bout advertised as for the English Championship this was in 1891, 157lbs Pritchard kod him in 3 rds . They fought a return 4 years later in 1895 ,and Smith evened the score stopping Pritchard in 2 rds for the English Title. So Smith became Gloved Champion of England in 1895. Five years after losing to Jackson .At least that's my take on it.
This is true, but don't expect McVey to embrace it. He's like a broken clock in need of a hysterectomy.
How can you come back daily and ignore the fact that you posted total bull****, was exposed in doing so, yet refuse to admit you were wrong ,despite requests for you to do so ? Truth ? You wouldn't know the truth if it jumped up and punched you in your lying mouth.atsch
Yes you are entirely right B, I looked it up ,the Jackson/ Lees bout was for Lees's Australian Title.I WAS WRONG.:good
And unlike the british and other titles which do not seem to have been as official or universally recognised (as you are pointing out), the Australian title was really strongly recognised. It was almost like the Australian champion was the world champion, in Australia at least, a little similar to John L being considered the World Champion even when he was only the american champion. Definitely different times, and it is often very difficult to understand. For what it is worth, i find that if you assume that a fighter who was considered great by his peers was actually great, then almost always when you look into it, that fighter is as good or better than what is believed. I can see the difficulties with Jackson, who i have always originally thought was overated, but as you delve deeper and deeper, his legends starts to stack up. I am certain he was one of the all time greats.
I agree with your last statement, I consider him Corbett's superior. Australia had Jackson, Goddard,Slavin, O Donnell ,and Fitz, it was all happening Down Under!
Even if i believe in Evolution of the sport, i do think that Wilson, Lapai, Haumono, Sonny Bill Williams and Co might struggle against that bunch.
Its strange that such a sporty nation has produced so comparatively few great fighters of recent years ,even allowing for the relatively small population. I'm always puzzled why Scotland can produce great small men but never a decent heavyweight.